Question:
;-0 outside the Woden Hospital, You have a 60 sign, a 50 sifn and a 40 sign all in the space of 100 metres. On the Monaro highway, it went from 100 to 80 which was standard, some roadworkers who weren’t there at the time put up a 60 sign then a 40 about 100 metres after sign where the roadwork commenced. All in the space of a few hundred metres before the bend. Just around the corner on both sides of the road were 2 cop radar guns picking up everybody as they came into view. I don’t normally speed but you very rarely slow to 40 and this is what they worked on. Luckily for me, I noticed the bank up of cars on the side and had slowed thinking that there was an accident. I am only thankful that there are no real crooks and crims in Canberra vandalising or running amok anymore so that the cops can afford to nab us nasty speeders and keep our roads safe. Just wish they’d do it in the area’s that matter like ride outside my street where all sorts of vehicular crimes take place. Or better still, outside the school down the road or any school for that matter.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip The average driver now seems to study only his speedo, and has absolutely no idea what is going on around him. But, they’ve been convinced that if they don’t exceed the speed limit, then they are a ’safe’ driver. I sort of beg to differ. Sorry, all off topic, I know. JB Not really off topic, JB. Any money squandered on speeding fines is less you have for aviation….:-) I think I recall a report here in SA, where some of our red-light cameras also double as speed cameras (they are trying to teach people that a yellow light means brake not throttle), saying that after the initial introduction, there were less head-ons at the relevant intersections, but more rear-enders…. I have no problems with speed cameras with the 10% tolerance- this is voluntary taxation as I see it- but I agree that the 3k margin in Vic is tough and counter-productive. Just like aeroplanes (see? back on topic!!) we want people looking out the *front* of their conveyances and Coop But then they have to read all the bloody signs, which are multiplying like rabbits. In my area, you have to drive so slow just to be able to scan, see, read, comprehend, obey, and ……. No need for tacho or GSI, but I do check fuel remaining and quasi CHT occasionally.
Response:
Speed cameras just displace the speed problem and provide revenue (Mista Carr has said as much), often penalising safe drivers.
Actually, that’s crap 
One could argue that, by speeding, the driver is not a ’safe driver’ at all. Regardless of their perceived safety, they are breaking the law and were caught. (oh it’s not a real law, oh it’s only speeding, blah blah blah.) Safe, and law abiding, drivers do not contribute to this ‘revenue raising’ excuse that those caught go on about. If anything, in NSW, fixed speed cameras are an "idiot tax". Plenty of speed limit signs, at least three prominent warnings about the approaching speed camera, big camera structure on the side of the road (usually floodlit at night) with more signs… and yet they catch people. amusing Much much rather see red light cameras – thems I will support… Nutters go through red lights all the time here – at speed. Look before you leap out of a fresh green light – or else…
I quite like the ACT speed/red light cameras. They zap you if you go through a red light. They zap you if you speed through the intersection (green, amber or red). They zap you once & book you twice if you speed through a red! Intersections are possibly the worst place for speeding – pedestrians, other traffic, obstructions, distractions, etc. Imho, these beasties are much better than the NSW ones. Best way to avoid fines is to drive within the limits, even if you’re running late for your flight (aviation reference!!!!!). Cheers, Andrew who recently got ‘done’ by Albury Highway Patrol who had nothing better to do and weren’t out catching the real crims! 
Response:
Best way to avoid fines is to drive within the limits, even if you’re running late for your flight (aviation reference!!!!!). Cheers, Andrew who recently got ‘done’ by Albury Highway Patrol who had nothing better to do and weren’t out catching the real crims!
We all say we are safe and not sinners, and we all winge when we get caught… /viz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the mere fact that the car went too fast whilst you were at the controls makes you liable So the pressure of your foot on the accelerator had nothing to do with it? Confession time- I work in a prison- and I hear excuses like this all day long. You miss my point. It wasn’t designed to be an excuse. The principle of ’strict liability’ (or whatever the lawyers call it) is based on the principle that the legislation, by design, specifically excludes any element of ‘mens rea’ (aka ‘mental element’ or ‘intent’) from the definition of the offence. That means that claiming "the car did it by itself" or "I didn’t mean to do it" is NOT A DEFENCE to offenses of that nature. You’re guilty of the offence merely by virtue of the fact that you were in charge of the vehicle at the time. They are minor offenses with minor consequences and to allow elaborate defences would just clog courts, so they skip the mental element for those offenses.
And what’s wrong with that? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -You mean its actually working? Yup, the gubmint is making heaps of money out of it. They’re still having difficulty with ’scientific evidence’ though. Until the NSW motorist works out that staying 5kph *below* the limit keeps him outside the "ADR tolerance" again, and the revenue drops away…along with the road accident figures. I guess they’ll have to find some other form of "voluntary taxation" then…. Well, they’re working on property sales these days. Absolute bloody windfall for them, that is. GB
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Come on guys, get over it, you tell me you have the ability to fly within plus or minus 20 feet of the required altitude, approach at plus or minus 5 kts of the correct airspeed, but you can’t keep your cars below the speed limit? Get real!! Coop You try working for a living of the roads, mate! I *always* have got 3-6 demerit points on my driver’s license – and had them for the last 20 years… 
Keep getting nicked for something – last one was 62 kays in 50 zone – dunno where the camera was, and I still think that I woz in a 60 zone. Dunno where that 50 zone is Oh well… C’est la vie. Point being – and to use your point – plus or minus 20 feet does not get you three demerit points and $280 Speed cameras just displace the speed problem and provide revenue (Mista Carr has said as much), often penalising safe drivers. Missus got knicked at the bottom of a hill one night – first ticket in 21 years of accident free driving. And she drives every day. Much much rather see red light cameras – thems I will support… Nutters go through red lights all the time here – at speed. Look before you leap out of a fresh green light – or else… /viz
Glad to see you support the Red Light cameras, viz. I have driven for a living- did it for two years (plus 6 months as a cabbie)- no speeding fines, but saw a heap of interesting prangs. Including one where a delightful young lady in an auto Monaro tried to drag off some hoons in a Ford, and went backwards into the car behind her….. Those of us not doubled up laughing were having trouble driving off because of the tears in our eyes…. Coop
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip The average driver now seems to study only his speedo, and has absolutely no idea what is going on around him. But, they’ve been convinced that if they don’t exceed the speed limit, then they are a ’safe’ driver. I sort of beg to differ. Sorry, all off topic, I know. JB Not really off topic, JB. Any money squandered on speeding fines is less you have for aviation….:-) I think I recall a report here in SA, where some of our red-light cameras also double as speed cameras (they are trying to teach people that a yellow light means brake not throttle), saying that after the initial introduction, there were less head-ons at the relevant intersections, but more rear-enders…. I have no problems with speed cameras with the 10% tolerance- this is voluntary taxation as I see it- but I agree that the 3k margin in Vic is tough and counter-productive. Just like aeroplanes (see? back on topic!!) we want people looking out the *front* of their conveyances Coop But then they have to read all the bloody signs, which are multiplying like rabbits. In my area, you have to drive so slow just to be able to scan, see, read, comprehend, obey, and ……. No need for tacho or GSI, but I do check fuel remaining and quasi CHT occasionally.
Agreed. Now there’s a nice little topic for an honours human factors student- what is the cognitive load imposed by reading traffic control signs and are there locations where this load begins to approach (or exceed) human capabilities? What is the range of human capabilities in this area, when it comes to that? Coop (Probably already been done….)
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Come on guys, get over it, you tell me you have the ability to fly within plus or minus 20 feet of the required altitude, approach at plus or minus 5 kts of the correct airspeed, but you can’t keep your cars below the speed limit? Get real!! Coop
You try working for a living of the roads, mate! I *always* have got 3-6 demerit points on my driver’s license – and had them for the last 20 years… Keep getting nicked for something – last one was 62 kays in 50 zone – dunno where the camera was, and I still think that I woz in a 60 zone. Dunno where that 50 zone is Oh well… C’est la vie. Point being – and to use your point – plus or minus 20 feet does not get you three demerit points and $280 Speed cameras just displace the speed problem and provide revenue (Mista Carr has said as much), often penalising safe drivers. Missus got knicked at the bottom of a hill one night – first ticket in 21 years of accident free driving. And she drives every day. Much much rather see red light cameras – thems I will support… Nutters go through red lights all the time here – at speed. Look before you leap out of a fresh green light – or else… /viz
Response:
the mere fact that the car went too fast whilst you were at the controls makes you liable
So the pressure of your foot on the accelerator had nothing to do with it? Confession time- I work in a prison- and I hear excuses like this all day long. We call them "thinking errors", and they get trotted out whenever people won’t take responsibility for their own actions. Really, the only difference between us and the people behind bars is the severity of the lawbreaking. The excuses are exactly the same…. It’s interesting to read the opinions here about speeding in cars and compare them with the opinions about approaching Vne in aircraft… We all think 5kph over the limit is nothing- until we try to stop before hitting that kid who just ran/cycled/skipped/whatever, out in front of us….. What the prick carefully declined to mention was that, he makes bugger all money out of =15Km/h tickets anyway. NSW motorists are so conditioned to the gubmint’s "tax the motorist" approach to revenue that they just don’t bother with speeding anymore.
You mean its actually working? Where he is *really* making the money is in the 5Km/h over tickets that his cash harvesting tax cameras hand out like lollipops. The ‘below ADR tolerance’ speeding fines are almost as a big a financial windfall for the NSW State Government at the moment as stamp duty (tax) on real property sales is. I’m inclined to suggest that you won’t *ever* see him having a fire sale on *those* tickets – they’re worth too much money to him.
Until the NSW motorist works out that staying 5kph *below* the limit keeps him outside the "ADR tolerance" again, and the revenue drops away…along with the road accident figures. I guess they’ll have to find some other form of "voluntary taxation" then…. GB
Come on guys, get over it, you tell me you have the ability to fly within plus or minus 20 feet of the required altitude, approach at plus or minus 5 kts of the correct airspeed, but you can’t keep your cars below the speed limit? Get real!! Coop
Response:
<snip Speeding is easily measured so it is marketed as being the major contributing factor. And, quite by chance, it is a great money spinner for the authorities! John
By Chance? Oh, come now….. Coop
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<snip The average driver now seems to study only his speedo, and has absolutely no idea what is going on around him. But, they’ve been convinced that if they don’t exceed the speed limit, then they are a ’safe’ driver. I sort of beg to differ. Sorry, all off topic, I know. JB
Not really off topic, JB. Any money squandered on speeding fines is less you have for aviation….:-) I think I recall a report here in SA, where some of our red-light cameras also double as speed cameras (they are trying to teach people that a yellow light means brake not throttle), saying that after the initial introduction, there were less head-ons at the relevant intersections, but more rear-enders…. I have no problems with speed cameras with the 10% tolerance- this is voluntary taxation as I see it- but I agree that the 3k margin in Vic is tough and counter-productive. Just like aeroplanes (see? back on topic!!) we want people looking out the *front* of their conveyances and Coop
Response:
The average driver now seems to study only his speedo, and has absolutely no idea what is going on around him. But, they’ve been convinced that if they don’t exceed the speed limit, then they are a ’safe’ driver. I sort of beg to differ. Sorry, all off topic, I know. JB
It’s not off topic JB. People flying C-172s and PA-28s in to GAAPs have the same disregard for bods in twins and fast singles. They watch their ASI like their life depends on it and bugger everyone else.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip The average driver now seems to study only his speedo, and has absolutely no idea what is going on around him. But, they’ve been convinced that if they don’t exceed the speed limit, then they are a ’safe’ driver. I sort of beg to differ. Sorry, all off topic, I know. JB Not really off topic, JB. Any money squandered on speeding fines is less you have for aviation….:-) I think I recall a report here in SA, where some of our red-light cameras also double as speed cameras (they are trying to teach people that a yellow light means brake not throttle), saying that after the initial introduction, there were less head-ons at the relevant intersections, but more rear-enders…. I have no problems with speed cameras with the 10% tolerance- this is voluntary taxation as I see it- but I agree that the 3k margin in Vic is tough and counter-productive. Just like aeroplanes (see? back on topic!!) we want people looking out the *front* of their conveyances and Coop
But then they have to read all the bloody signs, which are multiplying like rabbits. In my area, you have to drive so slow just to be able to scan, see, read, comprehend, obey, and ……. No need for tacho or GSI, but I do check fuel remaining and quasi CHT occasionally.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip The average driver now seems to study only his speedo, and has absolutely no idea what is going on around him. But, they’ve been convinced that if they don’t exceed the speed limit, then they are a ’safe’ driver. I sort of beg to differ. Sorry, all off topic, I know. JB Not really off topic, JB. Any money squandered on speeding fines is less you have for aviation….:-) I think I recall a report here in SA, where some of our red-light cameras also double as speed cameras (they are trying to teach people that a yellow light means brake not throttle), saying that after the initial introduction, there were less head-ons at the relevant intersections, but more rear-enders…. I have no problems with speed cameras with the 10% tolerance- this is voluntary taxation as I see it- but I agree that the 3k margin in Vic is tough and counter-productive. Just like aeroplanes (see? back on topic!!) we want people looking out the *front* of their conveyances and Coop But then they have to read all the bloody signs, which are multiplying like rabbits. In my area, you have to drive so slow just to be able to scan, see, read, comprehend, obey, and ……. No need for tacho or GSI, but I do check fuel remaining and quasi CHT occasionally. Agreed. Now there’s a nice little topic for an honours human factors student- what is the cognitive load imposed by reading traffic control signs and are there locations where this load begins to approach (or exceed) human capabilities? What is the range of human capabilities in this area, when it comes to that? Coop (Probably already been done….)
Well there is plenty of evidence that any one of a multitude of impairments – anger, old age, alcohol, prescription drugs, even distractions such as sexy pedestrians and hoardings featuring women in lingerie – dramatically reduces a driver’s ability to cope with the unexpected. I’m sure the above all contribute to more accidents than just speeding in isolation. Speeding is easily measured so it is marketed as being the major contributing factor. And, quite by chance, it is a great money spinner for the authorities! John
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I’m certainly no expert on the systems that they use, but I wonder if the lack of latitude has actually caught them out. If you only book people once they are 10% over the posted limit, then you are not only giving the driver a 10% margin, but you are also doing the same for yourself, and your equipment. It’s perhaps unlikely that your radar (or laser or whatever) gear would be off by 10%, so you’ve got a buffer against erroneous bookings, and the results that invariably brings. But, as soon as you reduce the leeway to effectively zero, you are also saying that your own equipment is infallible. Not a claim I’d make for most gear, especially in ‘field’ operations.
Amen. In NSW it was/is 10% +1 – and so if you were speeding you had little argument. ADR’s I think allow a 10% margin – that’s got to be an argument in court… /viz
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m certainly no expert on the systems that they use, but I wonder if the lack of latitude has actually caught them out. If you only book people once they are 10% over the posted limit, then you are not only giving the driver a 10% margin, but you are also doing the same for yourself, and your equipment. It’s perhaps unlikely that your radar (or laser or whatever) gear would be off by 10%, so you’ve got a buffer against erroneous bookings, and the results that invariably brings. But, as soon as you reduce the leeway to effectively zero, you are also saying that your own equipment is infallible. Not a claim I’d make for most gear, especially in ‘field’ operations. They got greedy. They thought that a few people being booked when NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG would be ok Well, whilst I don’t mind seeing the d..heads booked, I have a bit of a problem with this mindset. The average driver now seems to study only his speedo, and has absolutely no idea what is going on around him.
Totally agree – that is why my last 3 vehicles have had cruise control. Saved my arse on numerous occasions. Not that I deliberately overspeed, but is so easy to inadvertently press down an extra few mm on the pedal and be in demerit point territory. The combination of an engine ticking over at less than 2,000rpm at 100kph and today’s soundproofing means that an increase in speed results in an almost imperceptible change in vehicle noise. My gripe is if it is all about saving lives put more cameras outside schools and high risk areas rather than dual-carriage motorways. JB, to bring it back to aviation – do you guys have a demerit system? :) Cheers, John
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<snip Also be aware of the speed (revenue) cameras.
Call them Greed cameras when who talk to anyone – perception is important — regards jc LEGAL – I don’t believe what I wrote and neither should you. Sobriety and/or sanity of the author is not guaranteed addresses. news2x at perentie is valid for a while.
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@nasal.pacific.net.au: Also be aware of the speed (revenue) cameras. Call them Greed cameras when who talk to anyone – perception is important I call ‘em ‘tax cameras’ when I talk to anyone. Each to his own. GB
Perhaps more like theft cameras, given their ability to grab shots of people who weren’t speeding. JB
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I’m certainly no expert on the systems that they use, but I wonder if the lack of latitude has actually caught them out. If you only book people once they are 10% over the posted limit, then you are not only giving the driver a 10% margin, but you are also doing the same for yourself, and your equipment. It’s perhaps unlikely that your radar (or laser or whatever) gear would be off by 10%, so you’ve got a buffer against erroneous bookings, and the results that invariably brings. But, as soon as you reduce the leeway to effectively zero, you are also saying that your own equipment is infallible. Not a claim I’d make for most gear, especially in ‘field’ operations. They got greedy. They thought that a few people being booked when NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG would be ok Well, whilst I don’t mind seeing the d..heads booked, I have a bit of a problem with this mindset. The average driver now seems to study only his speedo, and has absolutely no idea what is going on around him. But, they’ve been convinced that if they don’t exceed the speed limit, then they are a ’safe’ driver. I sort of beg to differ. Sorry, all off topic, I know. JB
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perhaps more like theft cameras, given their ability to grab shots of people who weren’t speeding. I’ve always wondered at the apparent propensity of Victorian cameras for, as you say, grabbing shots of people who aren’t speeding. It seems to be a common theme on Victorian tabloid TV, but one that isn’t repeated here in NSW. I wonder if NSW cameras are ‘better’, if our laws are better at repelling challenges, if we in NSW tend to lie back and take it up the clacker more readily, or if there’s something else going on. Perhaps the NSW approach – to signpost each and every revenue camera – implies that you’d have to be a real dummy to get caught, and so if you did, you probably deserved it implicitly discourages challenges whereas the Victorian sneaky sneaky approach implicitly *encourages* indignant challenges ‘cos it "just ain’t kosher". One wonders. GB
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More than 30 minutes. That trip is 50km from the city or thereabouts. Leave an hour and more into the morning.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I arrive at Tullamarine early morning and hire a car, how long will it take me to drive to Avalon ? Estimate will do. Thanks kindly 30 minutes? It’s a freeway the entire way and on a normal day it shouldn’t take longer. However, for the Airshow they have special routing once you get close. You may find delays just from the traffic going into the Airshow. Early morning, you should be fine.
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More than 30 minutes. That trip is 50km from the city or thereabouts. Leave an hour and more into the morning.
Why would you drive from Tulla to Avalon via the city?
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If I arrive at Tullamarine early morning and hire a car, how long will it take me to drive to Avalon ? Estimate will do. Thanks kindly 30 minutes? It’s a freeway the entire way and on a normal day it shouldn’t take longer. However, for the Airshow they have special routing once you get close. You may find delays just from the traffic going into the Airshow. Early morning, you should be fine.
Well, it’s actually 65 kms, and whilst it is freeway all of the way, it’s on one of the nastiest bits of road (or maybe that’s just the drivers) that I know off. The Ring Road can be a great run at 100 kms, or more likely a game of dodgems at somewhere between stopped and 100km/hr (or both). Avoid before 10 am, and after 3pm. JB
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I arrive at Tullamarine early morning and hire a car, how long will it take me to drive to Avalon ? Estimate will do. Thanks kindly 30 minutes? It’s a freeway the entire way and on a normal day it shouldn’t take longer. However, for the Airshow they have special routing once you get close. You may find delays just from the traffic going into the Airshow. Early morning, you should be fine. Well, it’s actually 65 kms, and whilst it is freeway all of the way, it’s on one of the nastiest bits of road (or maybe that’s just the drivers) that I know off. The Ring Road can be a great run at 100 kms, or more likely a game of dodgems at somewhere between stopped and 100km/hr (or both). Avoid before 10 am, and after 3pm.
Also be aware of the speed (revenue) cameras. If you see a grid in the road, (similar to the one at traffic lights), that’s a camera.
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If I arrive at Tullamarine early morning and hire a car, how long will it take me to drive to Avalon ? Estimate will do. Thanks kindly
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If I arrive at Tullamarine early morning and hire a car, how long will it take me to drive to Avalon ? Estimate will do. Thanks kindly
30 minutes? It’s a freeway the entire way and on a normal day it shouldn’t take longer. However, for the Airshow they have special routing once you get close. You may find delays just from the traffic going into the Airshow. Early morning, you should be fine.
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