Valuair PER-SIN

Question:

Valuair to launch low-cost Perth-Singapore services Singapore-based budget carrier Valuair will begin flying to Perth in December. The airline already has approval from Singapore and has an application in with Australia

Grenada internet

Question:

Does anyone know of any internet cafes or similar in Grenada?  Someone has tried to send me email after they set up an email account, I haven’t received it.  Says the internet guy told him my address was wrong – I don’t think so, it’s my work email and government at that. No-one else has trouble with it.  So I gave him this one and I still haven’t received his mail. I’ve tried looking up supposed phone books and local internet places for Grenada to try and find this place he’s using but nothing shows up. Does anyone know somewhere there I can check, to get this guy to use? Or a site to find a phone book or internet cafe in Grenada? thanks Jan in Oz

Response:

Does anyone know of any internet cafes or similar in Grenada?  Someone has tried to send me email after they set up an email account, I haven’t received it.  Says the internet guy told him my address was wrong – I don’t think so, it’s my work email and government at that. No-one else has trouble with it.  So I gave him this one and I still haven’t received his mail. I’ve tried looking up supposed phone books and local internet places for Grenada to try and find this place he’s using but nothing shows up. Does anyone know somewhere there I can check, to get this guy to use? Or a site to find a phone book or internet cafe in Grenada? thanks Jan in Oz

I found a couple of cafes in St George’s on the main road by the harbour. — Visit Caribbean Aviation: http://www.caribbeanaviation.com/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know of any internet cafes or similar in Grenada?  Someone has tried to send me email after they set up an email account, I haven’t received it.  Says the internet guy told him my address was wrong – I don’t think so, it’s my work email and government at that. No-one else has trouble with it.  So I gave him this one and I still haven’t received his mail. I’ve tried looking up supposed phone books and local internet places for Grenada to try and find this place he’s using but nothing shows up. Does anyone know somewhere there I can check, to get this guy to use? Or a site to find a phone book or internet cafe in Grenada? thanks Jan in Oz I found a couple of cafes in St George’s on the main road by the harbour.

Do you know where I can get names of any of them?  I saw some in that main road too, none was open when I was there. (I did visit your aviation site, interesting but nothing relevant to my question).

Response:

Vale Ted – One of the Best.

Question:

what the hell do you say about Ted Harrison? I rescued him from the clutches of the Royal Aero Club of NSW, where he was not seeing eye to eye with the instructors & showed him what good training was all about. I first taught him aeros, then progressed to Commercial, an instructor rating & then to Multi engine IFR. We worked together for many many years after that training a generation of pilots. Many many fights were had – both in the air & at the aero club over far too many beers. I also showed him what real pussy cats were about when I & my ex introduced him to Abbysinians, Spare Dog was his cat’s name. Always feisty and arguementative if he thought he had the right answer, but always able to to make amends if he could be shown to be wrong. A great bloke and a good mate – in the truest sense of the word – I was hanging out to get him into the Glassair IIRG that I have just finished the test flying in – he would have truly loved such a beaut little machine. sadly missed Conscious Pilate AKA Jon Brunker

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings; Sunward I’ve climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth Of sun-split clouds, – and done a hundred things You have not dreamed of – wheeled and soared and swung High in the sunlit silence. Hov’ring there, I’ve chased the shouting wind along, and flung My eager craft through footless halls of air. . . . Up, up the long, delirious burning blue I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace Where never lark, or ever eagle flew – And, while with silent, lifting mind I’ve trod The high untresspassed sanctity of space, Put out my hand, and touched the face of God. – John Gillespie Magee, Jr #Very fitting – and was quoted at a recent memorial where 4 mates died in an air crash last year… Great piece of poetry…

The Air Force Band set it to music and performed it at the re-dedication of the RAAF memorial a few years ago. — "The code of the warrior class has room for fallibility but there is no room for a lack of integrity."

Response:

I also showed him what real pussy cats were about when I & my ex introduced him to Abbysinians, Spare Dog was his cat’s name.

I can relate to that – my computer password is based on the pedigree name of my old fashioned BIG Seal Point Siamese who bailed up an Irish Setter so severely the dog never entered our (unfenced) yard again. Always feisty and arguementative if he thought he had the right answer, but always able to to make amends if he could be shown to be wrong.

Mmph – was surprised when he emailed me a coupla weeks ago to ask if *I* was ok since I hadn’t posted for a coupla weeks.  Oh well…… A great bloke and a good mate – in the truest sense of the word – I was hanging out to get him into the Glassair IIRG that I have just finished the test flying in – he would have truly loved such a beaut little machine.

Response:

Will miss Ted Harrison’s posts very much. It already feels more quite without such a top bloke here posting and answering our questions Jimmy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I also showed him what real pussy cats were about when I & my ex introduced him to Abbysinians, Spare Dog was his cat’s name. I can relate to that – my computer password is based on the pedigree name of my old fashioned BIG Seal Point Siamese who bailed up an Irish Setter so severely the dog never entered our (unfenced) yard again. Always feisty and arguementative if he thought he had the right answer, but always able to to make amends if he could be shown to be wrong. Mmph – was surprised when he emailed me a coupla weeks ago to ask if *I* was ok since I hadn’t posted for a coupla weeks.  Oh well…… A great bloke and a good mate – in the truest sense of the word – I was hanging out to get him into the Glassair IIRG that I have just finished the test flying in – he would have truly loved such a beaut little machine.

Response:

Ted Harrison’s spirit of this NG and posts will always be with us forever. Although he’s not here to post anymore, I’m sure none of us will ever forget him… The first time I started noticing was when Ted Harrison answered back to my post "The Principle of Lift". He was very into it and I have not had the chance to thank him for getting so into my post and trying his best to answer it. I also just realised he sent me an email to me too and it also said he had left some things for me. I’m very happy that he had all of us in his heart. We will never forget you Ted Harrison and I won’t let you down in becoming an airline pilot! I’ve never got the luck to meet him personally… Although I feel I know him personally, it’s because his with all of us Let’s all continue Ted’s spirit in this post and all keep this NG alive and forever lively just like Ted this… Rest in peace Jimmy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – MESSAGE from Jim Harrson : – I am sorry to inform you that my father, Ted Harrison died peacefully in the early hours of this morning (27 June). The Harrison household is in deep mourning. I am sorry to inform you by e-mail rather than phone – but these were my instructions from Dad. I will send details regarding a funeral as soon as it is organised. (This message was sent to many people, therefore no personal comments are included.)

Response:

MESSAGE from Jim Harrson : – I am sorry to inform you that my father, Ted Harrison died peacefully in the early hours of this morning (27 June). The Harrison household is in deep mourning.

Bugger – very few people on usenet will ever be missed. Ted is undoubtedly one of those few.  A worthy adversary.

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Oh dear, that is sad news. JB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – MESSAGE from Jim Harrson : – I am sorry to inform you that my father, Ted Harrison died peacefully in the early hours of this morning (27 June). The Harrison household is in deep mourning. I am sorry to inform you by e-mail rather than phone – but these were my instructions from Dad. I will send details regarding a funeral as soon as it is organised. (This message was sent to many people, therefore no personal comments are included.)

Response:

MESSAGE from Jim Harrson : – I am sorry to inform you that my father, Ted Harrison died peacefully in the early hours of this morning (27 June). The Harrison household is in deep mourning. I am sorry to inform you by e-mail rather than phone – but these were my instructions from Dad. I will send details regarding a funeral as soon as it is organised. (This message was sent to many people, therefore no personal comments are included.)

Response:

MESSAGE from Jim Harrson : – I am sorry to inform you that my father, Ted Harrison died peacefully in the early hours of this morning (27 June). The Harrison household is in deep mourning. I am sorry to inform you by e-mail rather than phone – but these were my instructions from Dad. I will send details regarding a funeral as soon as it is organised. (This message was sent to many people, therefore no personal comments are included.)

Coop and I had the privilege of taking Ted for his last flights, myself for his very last, though I did not realise it at the time. I saw him last Thursday night and though he knew his time was near, he was quite chirpy and happy. We said goodbye and I knew it would be the last time I would see him. Where he has gone, there is no ATC, no bad weather, no turbulence, no clouds, no maintenance releases to sign, all students do as they’re told and all landings are greasers… And he is probably right now aguing the case of Newton vs Benoulli and flat plate theory with St Peter… CYA later Ted – Blue Skies mate… /viz

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MESSAGE from Jim Harrson : – I am sorry to inform you that my father, Ted Harrison died peacefully in the early hours of this morning (27 June). The Harrison household is in deep mourning.

Arrrrrrr… shit.  This is (er, WAS)  the bloke that emailed me a week ago to ask if **I** was ok since I hadn’t posted to the ng for a while! From what he said in an email yesterday I think his way out was a bit bumpy. Bugger it – we’ve lost one of our best

Response:

Thats sad news. Ted was a very active and informed poster on this group and it will be less for his passing. — Bernie Samms Kingston Beach Tasmania Aero Club of Southern Tasmania  www.acst.com.au Prologic Pty Ltd                          www.prologic.com.au Out Mail has been checked by Norton Anti Virus but no absolute guarantee is made that mail or attachment(s) are virus free.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – MESSAGE from Jim Harrson : – I am sorry to inform you that my father, Ted Harrison died peacefully in the early hours of this morning (27 June). The Harrison household is in deep mourning. I am sorry to inform you by e-mail rather than phone – but these were my instructions from Dad. I will send details regarding a funeral as soon as it is organised. (This message was sent to many people, therefore no personal comments are included.)

Response:

MESSAGE from Jim Harrson : – I am sorry to inform you that my father, Ted Harrison died peacefully in the early hours of this morning (27 June). The Harrison household is in deep mourning. I am sorry to inform you by e-mail rather than phone – but these were my instructions from Dad. I will send details regarding a funeral as soon as it is organised. (This message was sent to many people, therefore no personal comments are included.)

Blue skies Ted Ben Matthes. Canberra ACT Australia. A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures.                                                                Daniel Webster (1782 – 1852)

Response:

MESSAGE from Jim Harrson : – I am sorry to inform you that my father, Ted Harrison died peacefully in the early hours of this morning (27 June). The Harrison household is in deep mourning. I am sorry to inform you by e-mail rather than phone – but these were my instructions from Dad. I will send details regarding a funeral as soon as it is organised. (This message was sent to many people, therefore no personal comments are included.)

Very sad day for aus.aviation. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed Ted’s wit and insights over the years and I trust that one day we’ll meet up somewhere for a few circuits and a jug or two. Alan

Response:

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings; Sunward I’ve climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth Of sun-split clouds,

So maybe we're not Spaniards

Question:

Someone or Something has to be the "first" to become self aware. << Well, er…. no. Because of the equivalence of space and time, which was discovered (until we find out otherwise) by a particular bag of chemicals who worked in the patent office, there is no absolute way to decide what came "first" outside the light cone. Jose — (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

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 there is no absolute way to decide what came "first" outside the light cone.

Hey!  This is an AMATURE discussion!  Teachers and facts are not allowed! — Jim Fisher

Response:

We are not Spaniards. We are food.

Nice to know I’ve come to the right place for a snack.         – Andrew

Response:

The Old Ones from beyond the cold, unfeeling stars know the truth. We are not Spaniards. We are food.

  Been watching the Twilight Zone?   A book entitled "To Serve Man" springs immediately to mind John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

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Hey!  This is an AMATURE discussion!  Teachers and facts are not allowed!

Do you mean an armature discussion?  Perhaps you should try the alt.sculpture or alt.engineering.electrical groups.

Response:

Hey!  This is an AMATURE discussion!  Teachers and facts are not allowed! Do you mean an armature discussion?  Perhaps you should try the alt.sculpture or alt.engineering.electrical groups.

Dang, and I thought we were gonna start talking Winchesters, Navy Colts, and the Zen of the 7.62mm… Chip, ZTL

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey!  This is an AMATURE discussion!  Teachers and facts are not allowed! Do you mean an armature discussion?  Perhaps you should try the alt.sculpture or alt.engineering.electrical groups. Dang, and I thought we were gonna start talking Winchesters, Navy Colts, and the Zen of the 7.62mm…

I thought it had to do with Spanish Mausers.

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I thought it had to do with Spanish Mausers.

Swedish Masseuse. Paul

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Judah, glad I left that thread out… — Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

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glad I left that thread out…

Actually, it was one of the more fascinating threads I’ve seen here for a while. Sad, but fascinating all the same. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

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Jay, well, if you say it – marked for download. I’ll hold you responsible. — Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

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Jay, I have cross-read it. Fascinating, indeed. And I have to say, I found it reassuring rather than sad. Good to see that there are still people not falling for the "We can stop terrorism" thing that easily. — Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Response:

To think, the whole lengthy, periodically mean-spirited, often accusational, and sometimes borderline insane thread started because Jay was trying to wish good tidings to the victims of the terror attack in Spain…. And now the whole world, and the whole newsgroup, has been changed for ever…

Nothing has changed. We still are not Spaniards. We are nothing but meaningless motes in the vast blackness of space, presumptuously believing that anything we say or do is more than the random actions of bags of chemicals. What difference does it make to the infinite universe whether we kill each other or just paint ourselves blue? In the end, we are all dead anyway. We call mad those who have discovered a small portion of the true order of things, and delude ourselves that we are the sane ones. Only sometimes in the small hours of the night, when the brain’s defenses have weakened and the ancient portals have cracked just enough to let in the darkness from beyond the Void do we begin to feel the clammy hands of Death reaching for us. The hairs stiffen, the skin prickles, and only in the silence of the night do we begin to really hear the terrible cacophony of voices that never cease to scream out their despair. Drowning in fear and rage at their powerlessness, some men strike out at the cruel galactic joke that mankind is. Are such persons really terrorists or they simply ordinary men whose minds have snapped, unable to handle the cognitive dissonance of our delusions and the horrible nightmare that awaits us? We distract ourselves with technological marvels made of nothing but dust and air, trusting that a few moments of flight will help us forget the nature of the cloudy hell through which we wander. We vainly imagine that insignificant movements of ‘up’ or ‘down’ are somehow any different than the random bumpings of molecules imprisoned by light and gravity. The ancient clouds wait to receive us with their grasping tentacles. We are no more intelligent or self aware than they are. To them we are but playthings, to be led astray in mists of darkness and smashed back into the mud and slime from whence we crawled. With the setting of the sun we begin to see the blood red nature of these antediluvian towers of evil. Only the gibbering souls who lie sleepless on the stone floors of asylums might answer. The Old Ones from beyond the cold, unfeeling stars know the truth. We are not Spaniards. We are food.

Response:

This has got to be one of the best posts in this NG ever. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To think, the whole lengthy, periodically mean-spirited, often accusational, and sometimes borderline insane thread started because Jay was trying to wish good tidings to the victims of the terror attack in Spain…. And now the whole world, and the whole newsgroup, has been changed for ever… Nothing has changed. We still are not Spaniards. We are nothing but meaningless motes in the vast blackness of space, presumptuously believing that anything we say or do is more than the random actions of bags of chemicals. What difference does it make to the infinite universe whether we kill each other or just paint ourselves blue? In the end, we are all dead anyway. We call mad those who have discovered a small portion of the true order of things, and delude ourselves that we are the sane ones. Only sometimes in the small hours of the night, when the brain’s defenses have weakened and the ancient portals have cracked just enough to let in the darkness from beyond the Void do we begin to feel the clammy hands of Death reaching for us. The hairs stiffen, the skin prickles, and only in the silence of the night do we begin to really hear the terrible cacophony of voices that never cease to scream out their despair. Drowning in fear and rage at their powerlessness, some men strike out at the cruel galactic joke that mankind is. Are such persons really terrorists or they simply ordinary men whose minds have snapped, unable to handle the cognitive dissonance of our delusions and the horrible nightmare that awaits us? We distract ourselves with technological marvels made of nothing but dust and air, trusting that a few moments of flight will help us forget the nature of the cloudy hell through which we wander. We vainly imagine that insignificant movements of ‘up’ or ‘down’ are somehow any different than the random bumpings of molecules imprisoned by light and gravity. The ancient clouds wait to receive us with their grasping tentacles. We are no more intelligent or self aware than they are. To them we are but playthings, to be led astray in mists of darkness and smashed back into the mud and slime from whence we crawled. With the setting of the sun we begin to see the blood red nature of these antediluvian towers of evil. Only the gibbering souls who lie sleepless on the stone floors of asylums might answer. The Old Ones from beyond the cold, unfeeling stars know the truth. We are not Spaniards. We are food.

Response:

This has got to be one of the best posts in this NG ever.

Tee-hee! When Chris gets the bong stoked up, he gets downright extragalactic. — Dan C172RG at BFM

Response:

Only the gibbering souls who lie sleepless on the stone floors of asylums might answer. The Old Ones from beyond the cold, unfeeling stars know the truth. We are not Spaniards. We are food.

Wooooo-doggy, CJ! Dat was a GOOD one, in an Edgar Allen Poe/Arthur C. Clarke sorta way. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

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Only the gibbering souls who lie sleepless on the stone floors of asylums might answer. The Old Ones from beyond the cold, unfeeling stars know the truth. We are not Spaniards. We are food. Wooooo-doggy, CJ! Dat was a GOOD one, in an Edgar Allen Poe/Arthur C. Clarke sorta way.

You gotta read some H. P. Lovecraft, Jay. Don

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You gotta read some H. P. Lovecraft, Jay.

I’m trying to find more time to read, period.  It’s one of my New Year’s resolutions, along with exercising daily. I finally finished Gene Siebel’s excellent "Confessions of a Pilot" — a book I purchased over a year ago — just a couple of days ago.   Now I’m starting Bud Anderson’s memoir, "To Fly and Fight." With Dr. Jim’s donation of over 150 books, I’ll be in reading material for quite some time to come… — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

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 The Old Ones from beyond the cold, unfeeling stars know the truth. We are not Spaniards. We are food.

To say that all of mankind is but a mote in the Eye of the Old Ones is quite a stretch.  Not to mention depressing as hell. We have bootstrapped ourselves from the primordial ooze to become the most intelligent species this side of the Oort.  We have accomplished so very much in the last few seconds of this geologic day.  We have so very much more to do if only we can survive our own stupidity. Why, we have overcome our natural predilection to be a ground-borne hunter-gatherers and have conquered a infinitely small amount of space itself.  Even people like Mr. Cambell can inculcate other humans how to do that in mere hours!  Dust motes my asteroid! We miniscule "dust motes" may be the only self-aware motes in the entire universe.  Some scoff at such a presumption but the universe is still young. 15 b.y. old, we think.  Just a teenager.  Someone or Something has to be the "first" to become self aware.  Why not us puny bags of saline and carbon? No, Chris, we are more than the sum of our chemical makeup. We are capable of being so much more if we don’t annihilate ourselves first or allow those less intelligent than us to annihilate us.  I have absolutely no doubt at all that, given enough time, we will become gods or perhaps even God. Perhaps we already are. We think, therefore we are. — Jim Fisher

Response:

OK you guys. You are starting to sound like a Mrin Chronicle now, and it’s just plain scaring me. I always thought that those books were Science Fiction. But after reading your transaction, I truly have to wonder if you have found the Spirit of Torak.  And besides, now that they are making movies out of this stuff, I just don’t have the patience to read it all again… If you could please call the producers and ask them to include your discussion in part V of The War of Elvenkind, I would much appreciate it. Thanks guys! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  The Old Ones from beyond the cold, unfeeling stars know the truth. We are not Spaniards. We are food. To say that all of mankind is but a mote in the Eye of the Old Ones is quite a stretch.  Not to mention depressing as hell. We have bootstrapped ourselves from the primordial ooze to become the most intelligent species this side of the Oort.  We have accomplished so very much in the last few seconds of this geologic day.  We have so very much more to do if only we can survive our own stupidity. Why, we have overcome our natural predilection to be a ground-borne hunter-gatherers and have conquered a infinitely small amount of space itself.  Even people like Mr. Cambell can inculcate other humans how to do that in mere hours!  Dust motes my asteroid! We miniscule "dust motes" may be the only self-aware motes in the entire universe.  Some scoff at such a presumption but the universe is still young. 15 b.y. old, we think.  Just a teenager.  Someone or Something has to be the "first" to become self aware.  Why not us puny bags of saline and carbon? No, Chris, we are more than the sum of our chemical makeup. We are capable of being so much more if we don’t annihilate ourselves first or allow those less intelligent than us to annihilate us.  I have absolutely no doubt at all that, given enough time, we will become gods or perhaps even God. Perhaps we already are. We think, therefore we are. — Jim Fisher

Response:

To think, the whole lengthy, periodically mean-spirited, often accusational, and sometimes borderline insane thread started because Jay was trying to wish good tidings to the victims of the terror attack in Spain…. And now the whole world, and the whole newsgroup, has been changed for ever…

Response:

Another Aviation Story

Question:

You just gotta love these "Kelly’s Hero’s" type "stories!" "Legrande" I’ve always wondered what happens if you buy an auctioned seized vehicle, boat or plane, and the drug sniffing dog points out your machine months later?

There was a story I read somewhere about a situation just like that.  The guy had bought a "seized" car and it was found months later to have some cocaine still hidden inside it.  I think I’d keep some pretty records of where/how I got the car. John

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Never had that chance at SAT. All the FE’s were old salts that would harrass the rest of us. <snip

Know what you mean.  At SBW/FTL we had a bunch of PFE’s, and most of those guys could build the airplane with a pocket knife.  One old salt says to us "Let me explain something to you flyboys: I don’t do throttles!"  So I had to be the auto throttle all trip – what a pain. The capt got up to go to the reading room after stowing his bag, and this character shouts this complaint at me: "MY FIRST NAME IS COFFIE, AND MY SECOND NAME IS LOGBOOK!"  Then he pulls the curtain across and disappears into his own little country back there. But later on the 10 had a bunch of re-treads (former career cpt’s) who were so slow and clueless, when you called for a checklist, it would be faster to watch paint dry on the wall.  They could tell you all about how to do your job, but were semi-helpless and out of touch on the panel.  But just as many of them were good at their jobs, old friends and real gentlemen to work with. But I have to agree with Doug.  Three crew is a lot more fun. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My second flight as a newbie Capt was a real thrill. The FE and I had flown together alot when I was an FO and we got along great. His sense of humor was a little on the bland and dry side. We were sitting in the Herc at CHS waiting for some paperwork and he made a remark about congatulations on making Capt and since I was a newbie he wanted to make sure that we had an understanding about a few things. His remark was," There are three things on a Herc that can kill me. Props, bleed air, and pilots. I can take care of two of those items if you take care of the third." I could grasp the meaning of his statement as I knew that he had over 15,000 hours of panel time on the Herc with 5 different airlines. He was also involved in one of my biggest embaressing moments as a FO. On a layover at NPA I was taking the time from my "Red Book" and transfering it to my master log book. After adding up the totals, low and behold I had past 10,000 hours total time with 550 in the Herc. Bonzo, the Capt and Bud the afore mentioned FE were the rest of the crew. I proudly announced the monumental numbers and was just feeling like I had set some kind of record. Capt. Bonzo layed down the paper he was reading, removed the pipe from mouth and announced, "I have over 12,000 hours of Herc time." Bud chimed in with the " I have over 15,000 hours of panel time on the Herc." So I just closed the books, put them back in the flight case and went out for a walk. Lesson learned was that in Aviation no matter what you have done or how much you have done, someone else can probably top it. Walt

Good post Walt.  Where was NPA? pac

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B25flyer wrote … … in Aviation no matter what you have done or how much you have done, someone else can probably top it. And they all run their mouths on RAH.   Daniel

They run their mouths on RAH particularly when they haven’t done it. It’s real rare to see a thread like this, written by the old timers who really have done it. BWB

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Pensacola Naval Airstation. It was on a Quicktrans flight, the Navy version of Logair. Walt

Hey Walt, are you announcing at Sun and Fun again this year? BWB

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lesson learned was that in Aviation no matter what you have done or how much you have done, someone else can probably top it. Walt Most likely it will be zoom….just ask him LOL!!! Good story Walt. See ya at SnF Chuck S

Are you going to post "no zoom zone"  and "juan go home" signs? Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

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B25flyer wrote … … in Aviation no matter what you have done or how much you have done, someone else can probably top it. And they all run their mouths on RAH. Daniel

Do us a favor.  Got any other snide remarks?  Keep them to yoourself.  Be part of the solution, not the problem. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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Good post Walt.  Where was NPA? pac Pensacola Naval Airstation. It was on a Quicktrans flight, the Navy version of Logair. Walt

O.K. I’ve flown over that a bunch, didn’t recognize it.  Thought it was going to turn out to be Niarobi or New-people’s-army airport or something in Africa.  :-) Duh. Note: The following is fiction and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental. Old chief pilot was a lectra Log Air guy before and had some great stories about that flying.  L-188 I think?  He said he used to fly with this wine-o engineer and hippie co-pilot with ear-rings who’d only stay awake until climb out and say "turn them knobs boys" and then collapse on his little table. No matter what he’d say to his stoner co-pilot the response was always "Cool daddy bear, Cool."  Said that was quite a shocker after having flown for Air Cal for 14 years(where he got canned for among other things: bringing the union on the property, and doing the wild thing with a drunk stew in the aft lav!) The guy was a legend among Air Cal pilots, and trained a lot of them over the years.  This guy was one of my mentors and friend and somebody told me he was killed in one of those flights.  But "Jack" always had the "radar" on, if you know what I mean! pac

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Of Course at least the "zoom free zone" sign and an "ANN free zone" sign  as well. Jaun is probably in PR now and probably won’t show up . But if he does I’ll let him sit in my new Dodge Ram and even show him the registration LOL!!! Haven’t heard much about zooms lawsuit against SnF .He’s pretty quiet and this is the time he usually starts ranting about  being kicked out of SnF. See ya Chuck S – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Are you going to post "no zoom zone"  and "juan go home" signs? Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

Response:

That has happened a couple of times here in San Diego. Unsuspecting folks bought confiscated cars and drove them back into Mexico. At some point they were searched and found to have large caches of marijuana hidden. The pot was old and moldy and these guys spent about a year in a Mexican jail pleading their innocence. Finally let out and are now suing the Border Patrol.

Response:

Lesson learned was that in Aviation no matter what you have done or how much you have done, someone else can probably top it. Walt

Most likely it will be zoom….just ask him LOL!!! Good story Walt. See ya at SnF Chuck S

Response:

Morgans wrote … … Got any other snide remarks?  Keep them to yoourself.  Be part of the solution, not the problem.

Relax, it was facetious, not snide.  But thank you for proving the point. Daniel

Response:

Good post Walt.  Where was NPA? pac

Pensacola Naval Airstation. It was on a Quicktrans flight, the Navy version of Logair. Walt

Response:

B25flyer wrote … … in Aviation no matter what you have done or how much you have done, someone else can probably top it.

And they all run their mouths on RAH.   Daniel

Response:

#69: I just came back from a trip. I was flying with another fellow who’s background is similar to mine. We both grew up in South Florida and learned to fly during the ‘Miami Vice’ years. He recounted a tale from his days of working line. He was pumping gas one day when a grundgy Twin Beech came in from the islands and was swarmed by DEA agents soon after landing. This was a fairly regular thing in those days. The difference about this tale is that the pilot didn’t get busted. The agents eventually left the Twin Beech and came to my friend’s ramp to fuel their own plane. He asked the agents about the details. It seems that the pilot worked for an insurance company and stole the plane back from some dopers who stole it first. The agents had been staking out the island and the plane for some time. They saw the plane start the take-off roll and then they saw the dopers start firing their guns at the plane. They figured about 300 rounds were fired. The agents cornered the Beech after it landed to find out what was going on. They wanted to know what the heck had just happened. They wanted to know how the pilot got past their surveillance. They wanted to know how the pilot got past the dopers. As I listened to my fellow pilot’s tale, I started to remember those days from a long time ago. I keep those memories to myself though. Most folks hear those stories and associate the pilot with being a reckless cowboy. I have to maintain a reputation as a professional pilot, so I just keep quiet. Maybe some day after I reach the official old pilot age of 60, when I don’t need my professional reputation any more, I’ll write a book. D.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – #69: I just came back from a trip. I was flying with another fellow who’s background is similar to mine. We both grew up in South Florida and learned to fly during the ‘Miami Vice’ years. He recounted a tale from his days of working line. He was pumping gas one day when a grundgy Twin Beech came in from the islands and was swarmed by DEA agents soon after landing. This was a fairly regular thing in those days. The difference about this tale is that the pilot didn’t get busted. The agents eventually left the Twin Beech and came to my friend’s ramp to fuel their own plane. He asked the agents about the details. It seems that the pilot worked for an insurance company and stole the plane back from some dopers who stole it first. The agents had been staking out the island and the plane for some time. They saw the plane start the take-off roll and then they saw the dopers start firing their guns at the plane. They figured about 300 rounds were fired. The agents cornered the Beech after it landed to find out what was going on. They wanted to know what the heck had just happened. They wanted to know how the pilot got past their surveillance. They wanted to know how the pilot got past the dopers. As I listened to my fellow pilot’s tale, I started to remember those days from a long time ago. I keep those memories to myself though. Most folks hear those stories and associate the pilot with being a reckless cowboy. I have to maintain a reputation as a professional pilot, so I just keep quiet. Maybe some day after I reach the official old pilot age of 60, when I don’t need my professional reputation any more, I’ll write a book. D.

If you have more stories like that, please do! I’ve heard repo guys think they’re pretty tough. But this guy… Richard

Response:

You just gotta love these "Kelly’s Hero’s" type "stories!" "Legrande" I’ve always wondered what happens if you buy an auctioned seized vehicle, boat or plane, and the drug sniffing dog points out your machine months later? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a little fictitious story about drug running planes.   In Baja, Mexico, the Federales would take the props off of planes they suspected were used for smuggling (if they didn’t get their cut).   Anyone driving down Baja 1 could see all kinds of planes, with their props off, at deserted airstrips all the way down the peninsula.   Someone got the idea to copy down the N numbers and find out who owned the planes.  It turned out that most of the planes were owned by corporations and that most of the corporations didn’t even exist.  It was a fairly simple matter to create a corporation with the exact same name as the fictitious corporation that owned the airplane and become the legal owner. After a couple of trips down to Baja for much closer looks at the planes, 8 planes were selected.  They then got a few of their more adventurous flying buddies to go on a fishing trip with them.  It took about a week to get four of the planes (a 206 and three twins) in good enough shape to make the trip back North.   The scariest part of the trip was watching Customs inspect the planes, praying that they wouldn’t find anything.  The paper work held up.  The planes were sold and the buddies walked away a little richer.  They thought about keeping the planes but they wanted to sleep at night. Of course this is just a story

Response:

Doug,  Hisss hisssss!  If you only knew the power of the dark side of aviation writing!"

I’m only 2 years out of cargo. I miss it. Fortunately, many of my buds hit the street with me and we ended up at the same place. We haul passengers by day now, but we terrorize hotel bars at night. If only we had some new-hire flight engineers to haze…… D.

Response:

If only we had some new-hire flight engineers to haze……

Never had that chance at SAT. All the FE’s were old salts that would harrass the rest of us. My second flight as a newbie Capt was a real thrill. The FE and I had flown together alot when I was an FO and we got along great. His sense of humor was a little on the bland and dry side. We were sitting in the Herc at CHS waiting for some paperwork and he made a remark about congatulations on making Capt and since I was a newbie he wanted to make sure that we had an understanding about a few things. His remark was," There are three things on a Herc that can kill me. Props, bleed air, and pilots. I can take care of two of those items if you take care of the third." I could grasp the meaning of his statement as I knew that he had over 15,000 hours of panel time on the Herc with 5 different airlines. He was also involved in one of my biggest embaressing moments as a FO. On a layover at NPA I was taking the time from my "Red Book" and transfering it to my master log book. After adding up the totals, low and behold I had past 10,000 hours total time with 550 in the Herc. Bonzo, the Capt and Bud the afore mentioned FE were the rest of the crew. I proudly announced the monumental numbers and was just feeling like I had set some kind of record. Capt. Bonzo layed down the paper he was reading, removed the pipe from mouth and announced, "I have over 12,000 hours of Herc time." Bud chimed in with the " I have over 15,000 hours of panel time on the Herc." So I just closed the books, put them back in the flight case and went out for a walk. Lesson learned was that in Aviation no matter what you have done or how much you have done, someone else can probably top it. Walt

Response:

I have a little fictitious story about drug running planes.   In Baja, Mexico, the Federales would take the props off of planes they suspected were used for smuggling (if they didn’t get their cut).   Anyone driving down Baja 1 could see all kinds of planes, with their props off, at deserted airstrips all the way down the peninsula.   Someone got the idea to copy down the N numbers and find out who owned the planes.  It turned out that most of the planes were owned by corporations and that most of the corporations didn’t even exist.  It was a fairly simple matter to create a corporation with the exact same name as the fictitious corporation that owned the airplane and become the legal owner. After a couple of trips down to Baja for much closer looks at the planes, 8 planes were selected.  They then got a few of their more adventurous flying buddies to go on a fishing trip with them.  It took about a week to get four of the planes (a 206 and three twins) in good enough shape to make the trip back North.   The scariest part of the trip was watching Customs inspect the planes, praying that they wouldn’t find anything.  The paper work held up.  The planes were sold and the buddies walked away a little richer.  They thought about keeping the planes but they wanted to sleep at night. Of course this is just a story

Response:

#69: I just came back from a trip. I was flying with another fellow who’s background is similar to mine. We both grew up in South Florida and learned to fly during the ‘Miami Vice’ years. He recounted a tale from his days of working line. He was pumping gas one day when a grundgy Twin Beech came in from the islands and was swarmed by DEA agents soon after landing. This was a fairly regular thing in those days. The difference about this tale is that the pilot didn’t get busted.

"Good, give yourself to the dark cargo side Doug,  Hisss hisssss!  If you only knew the power of the dark side of aviation writing!" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The agents eventually left the Twin Beech and came to my friend’s ramp to fuel their own plane. He asked the agents about the details. It seems that the pilot worked for an insurance company and stole the plane back from some dopers who stole it first. The agents had been staking out the island and the plane for some time. They saw the plane start the take-off roll and then they saw the dopers start firing their guns at the plane. They figured about 300 rounds were fired. The agents cornered the Beech after it landed to find out what was going on. They wanted to know what the heck had just happened. They wanted to know how the pilot got past their surveillance. They wanted to know how the pilot got past the dopers. As I listened to my fellow pilot’s tale, I started to remember those days from a long time ago. I keep those memories to myself though. Most folks hear those stories and associate the pilot with being a reckless cowboy. I have to maintain a reputation as a professional pilot, so I just keep quiet. Maybe some day after I reach the official old pilot age of 60, when I don’t need my professional reputation any more, I’ll write a book. D.

"But it is too late for me, my son.  I’ve been branded a Union Cowboy for about eleven years now. Hisss Hisss {8^#  Obi-Wan never told you what happened to young Doug Skywalker. Hisss  Hissss, He got a real airline job and avoided the dark side….  But it’s not too late… The hot-dog force is strong in you… You can destroy the FAA Administrator, he has foreseen this… this is why he won’t let you tell tall flying stories on Usenet (under your own name, anyway!) Join me, and together we’ll write the story of RAH, and rule the internet as Aviation Brothers! Sorry, I lost myself in the part there for a minute… I was called "the duke" by co-pilots when our South Pacific base first opened up; a reference to my raging around the system wearing an indiana jones-type hat.  I way exceeded my authority out there on a regular basis, including refusal to use autopilots into the P.I. until the map shift issue was resolved and stuffing mailboxes with organizing letters.  I was given extra "cowboy" line checks, but passed them all, so I know what you’re talking about. Yes I heard that Florida stuff was exciting.  Love to hear some "ficticious" stories about that area from you Doug.  Tom Clancy always gets away with it by just using the blanket statement "its just fiction."  He’s carefull to change the names completely and twist the details around so that any pursuit will come up empty-handed.  What the hell.  You only live once. pac "rawhide" plyer

Response:

Yes, I did get laid. BWB

WWW (Wild Weasle-Wanabe) Fictional Story #69: In the world of clandestine GA buzzing, this is what we refer to as a confirmed kill Bill.   Kudos on the bull’s eye BWB.  Glad you picked a turbo for the high alt mission.  I was actually still 17 yrs old on that last unsuccessful mission to get laid now that I think about it. My next target unfortunately was the old Russian tea-house on the island inside the crater-ring of mountains of Emerald Bay Lake Tahoe. I picked up some great looking pussy who knew of my aerial prowess (thank god, cuz she also knew of my dismal football stats,) and proceeded to show her the true awesome power of a C150 with full tanks and two people.   I mean her tits were so big, I wasn’t sure we could make over mountains! We labored up highway 50.  Being an experienced 18-yr-old pilot with over one hundred hours of flight time, I knew exactly what I was doing.   I knew to fly IFR (I follow roads) just in case the rubber band broke.  Lucky for me the 6500 ft mountain air was still when we arrived up at Lake Tahoe because after the damn timing retarding AD came out on the 0-200, this particular frickin engine with the cruise prop installed was bogging me down to 80mph at full throttle leaned (and using periodic carb ht, to keep it going!)  But this was a "wild weasel" wana-be mission from God, so I flew into the bay 100 ft off the water unafraid (18-yr-old’s are immortal, and thus, have no fear of anything.) Better make a couple of orbits first to look for Ranger Rick or any tree huggers that might be hangin around before the buzz job.  My oh my!   It takes 50 degrees in this thing just to keep from hitting the walls in this crater!  Not good, Not good, this slug losses altitude at 55 degress!  (second mild unplanned accel stall!)  Engine running rough now

Interesting Departure Procedure: MRB Trixy Two

Question:

Presumably if you reach 1800′ before reaching LDN019 you just turn on course to the radial… but it isn’t obvious.

Well if you reach 1800′ before reaching LDN019 I am not sure if you should turn right onto the radial or if you should still intercept from the west . Perhaps the procedure was written to avoid a sensitive area on the ground or for noise abatement?  I am not sure there is a clear answer that would definitively comply with the procedure in that situation. — Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com

Response:

Well, I don’t think they could catch you for that… hypothetically, I take off in my F-16 carefully controlling my climb rate so I reach 1800′ exactly 1 foot after crossing LDN019. Then I yank the nose up and bank hard so as to turn in a tiny turn radius. Maybe this would be easier with a heli. But anyway you see my point (maybe…). If there was something you had to avoid then it would have to say something like… maintain RH until crossing LDN010, then turn left 160 to intercept LDN019.     John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Presumably if you reach 1800′ before reaching LDN019 you just turn on course to the radial… but it isn’t obvious. Well if you reach 1800′ before reaching LDN019 I am not sure if you should turn right onto the radial or if you should still intercept from the west . Perhaps the procedure was written to avoid a sensitive area on the ground or for noise abatement?  I am not sure there is a clear answer that would definitively comply with the procedure in that situation. — Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com

Response:

Well, I pulled up the Garmin 500 sim and put 199 in for TRIXY in OBS mode. This puts the 199 radial just about right through the BIITO BCM on the LOC BC RWY 8.  That fix is 3.9 miles west of the airport, and that runway is 7000 ft long.  So, it would be about 5 miles to go 1300′ from a field elevation of 557, which is required by the 300′ per NM in the ODP. Now, the interesting thing was that I accidentally selected 199 from TRIXY (as diagrammed) when I put the GPS in OBS mode after putting the DP in the FPL.  If you actually use the 199 radial from LDN as written, the point in space is 1.15NM east of BIITO, but that’s still 4 miles from MADNK (the beginning of RWY 26).  Just barely flying the minimum would put you 20 seconds past the 199 from LDN assuming a standard rate left turn.  If performance exceeds the minimums by 300′ per nm, I would presume this is a non-issue, but I could use some instrument DP practice. — Bob PP-ASEL-IA, A/IGI

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any other thoughts? Has anyone tried this "for real"? — Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com

Response:

Actually, "exceeds the minimums by 300′ per nm" should read "exceeds the minimums _of_ 300′ per nm"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I pulled up the Garmin 500 sim and put 199 in for TRIXY in OBS mode. This puts the 199 radial just about right through the BIITO BCM on the LOC BC RWY 8.  That fix is 3.9 miles west of the airport, and that runway is 7000 ft long.  So, it would be about 5 miles to go 1300′ from a field elevation of 557, which is required by the 300′ per NM in the ODP. Now, the interesting thing was that I accidentally selected 199 from TRIXY (as diagrammed) when I put the GPS in OBS mode after putting the DP in the FPL.  If you actually use the 199 radial from LDN as written, the point in space is 1.15NM east of BIITO, but that’s still 4 miles from MADNK (the beginning of RWY 26).  Just barely flying the minimum would put you 20 seconds past the 199 from LDN assuming a standard rate left turn.  If performance exceeds the minimums by 300′ per nm, I would presume this is a non-issue, but I could use some instrument DP practice. — Bob PP-ASEL-IA, A/IGI Any other thoughts? Has anyone tried this "for real"? — Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com

Response:

beginning of RWY 26).  Just barely flying the minimum would put you 20 seconds past the 199 from LDN assuming a standard rate left turn.  If

I flew the procedure with a student in my Cessna 210 simulator (which also has a Garmin 530) and we reached the designated altitude significantly before we crossed the radial.  If the procedure were flown purely by VOR and pilotage with no moving map, one could easily lose situational awareness at that point. Again, the Jepp charts depict this much better graphically, although I realize only the text is legally binding. — Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com

Response:

If the procedure were flown purely by VOR and pilotage with no moving map, one could easily lose situational awareness at that point. Again, the Jepp charts depict this much better graphically, although I realize only the text is legally binding.

I wouldn’t know about the Jepp – don’t have it -, but you’re right about the in situ problem.  I didn’t even think about the 160 notation, which presumes that flying through the radial is likely even though it is depicted as a straight intercept to join the radial. But I have to wonder why or how one would fly a DP and use pilotage in this case.  ;)

Response:

The departure text is poorly written.  It presumes I cannot climb to 1,800 feet in less than 2.6 miles (the distance from the departure end of 26 to the radial with no errors.  The VOR radial could be closer or further, though, depending upon errors. If they wanted you to avoid some area then they would have to specifiy a fix at which to turn. It’s crappy language so each chart maker put their own assumptions on the graphics. You need to do what you need to do to intercept the radial.  If you have passed through it before reaching 1,800 then you don’t turn until 1,800 and you use the heading of 160 in that case.  If you can climg 1300 feet in less than 2.6 miles then you turn left as necessary to intercept the radial.  Nothing else would make sense. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Presumably if you reach 1800′ before reaching LDN019 you just turn on course to the radial… but it isn’t obvious. Well if you reach 1800′ before reaching LDN019 I am not sure if you should turn right onto the radial or if you should still intercept from the west . Perhaps the procedure was written to avoid a sensitive area on the ground or for noise abatement?  I am not sure there is a clear answer that would definitively comply with the procedure in that situation. — Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com

Response:

Well, I pulled up the Garmin 500 sim and put 199 in for TRIXY in OBS mode. This puts the 199 radial just about right through the BIITO BCM on the LOC BC RWY 8.  That fix is 3.9 miles west of the airport, and that runway is 7000 ft long.  So, it would be about 5 miles to go 1300′ from a field elevation of 557, which is required by the 300′ per NM in the ODP.

It’s 2.6 miles from the departure end of 26 to the radial assuming no VOR system errors (not a good assumption unless you’re using GPS).  And, the 300 feet per mile is the minimum climb gradient.  If my airplane does 500 feet per mile I will be at 1,800 prior to the radial.

Response:

Interestingly enough, whereas the NOAA chart says "intercept LDN R-019 *TO* trixy int" the Jepp chart says "intercept LDN R-019 *OR* trixy int". Gerd (ATPL) T182  C-FDOW

Response:

How do you intercept an intersection? I always find it amusing when I see a sign saying "It is forbidden to pass this point" or whatever since you can’t really pass a point. But I’d hope that the terpsters would be a bit more precise!     John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interestingly enough, whereas the NOAA chart says "intercept LDN R-019 *TO* trixy int" the Jepp chart says "intercept LDN R-019 *OR* trixy int". Gerd (ATPL) T182  C-FDOW

Response:

heading of 160 in that case.  If you can climg 1300 feet in less than 2.6 miles then you turn left as necessary to intercept the radial.  Nothing else would make sense.

Turn left or turn right from a heading of 160? — Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com

Response:

heading of 160 in that case.  If you can climg 1300 feet in less than 2.6 miles then you turn left as necessary to intercept the radial.  Nothing else would make sense. Turn left or turn right from a heading of 160?

You’re losing me.  What I said is if you get to 1,300 in less than 2.6 miles, which is presumably before you pass through the radial, you then turn left as necessary from runway heading to intercept the radial.  If, on the other hand, you are climbing at a gradient that takes you through the radial before you get to 1,300 then you would turn left to intercept the radial once leaving 1,300.

Response:

OK….Soo… Who do we tell our opinion to ? We should be able to have it reviewed or something right ?  Then if "they" feel they can do better, then "they" will design a better DP, right ? Stuart

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you intercept an intersection? I always find it amusing when I see a sign saying "It is forbidden to pass this point" or whatever since you can’t really pass a point. But I’d hope that the terpsters would be a bit more precise!     John Interestingly enough, whereas the NOAA chart says "intercept LDN R-019 *TO* trixy int" the Jepp chart says "intercept LDN R-019 *OR* trixy int". Gerd (ATPL) T182  C-FDOW

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – heading of 160 in that case.  If you can climg 1300 feet in less than 2.6 miles then you turn left as necessary to intercept the radial.  Nothing else would make sense. Turn left or turn right from a heading of 160? You’re losing me.  What I said is if you get to 1,300 in less than 2.6 miles, which is presumably before you pass through the radial, you then turn left as necessary from runway heading to intercept the radial.

"climbing left turn via heading 160" is not "turn left as necessary to intercept the radial" In reaching 1800′ prior to the radial, a left turn to (or "via", whatever that means) heading 160 never intercepts.

Response:

OK….Soo… Who do we tell our opinion to ? We should be able to have it reviewed or something right ?  Then if "they" feel they can do better, then "they" will design a better DP, right ?

The address and toll-free number are listed on the INOP Components page/inside cover of any volume of the NACO US Terminal Procedures.

Response:

What I said is if you get to 1,300 in less than 2.6 miles, which is presumably before you pass through the radial, you then turn left as necessary from runway heading to intercept the radial.

But a left turn shortly after departing will not intercept the radial. Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – heading of 160 in that case.  If you can climg 1300 feet in less than 2.6 miles then you turn left as necessary to intercept the radial.  Nothing else would make sense. Turn left or turn right from a heading of 160? You’re losing me.  What I said is if you get to 1,300 in less than 2.6 miles, which is presumably before you pass through the radial, you then turn left as necessary from runway heading to intercept the radial. "climbing left turn via heading 160" is not "turn left as necessary to intercept the radial" In reaching 1800′ prior to the radial, a left turn to (or "via", whatever that means) heading 160 never intercepts.

That is obvious, isn’t it.

Response:

What I said is if you get to 1,300 in less than 2.6 miles, which is presumably before you pass through the radial, you then turn left as necessary from runway heading to intercept the radial. But a left turn shortly after departing will not intercept the radial.

If you’re flying a P51, and cross the end of the runway at 1,800, you still have to turn left to intercept that radial.  Where you begin the turn requires use of skill and common sense; i.e. you start the turn to roll out on the radial proceeding towards the VOR.  That is a left turn, no matter how you slice it.

Response:

OK….Soo… Who do we tell our opinion to ? We should be able to have it reviewed or something right ?  Then if "they" feel they can do better, then "they" will design a better DP, right ? The address and toll-free number are listed on the INOP Components page/inside cover of any volume of the NACO US Terminal Procedures.

You’re wasting your time calling them.  The procedure "belongs" to the FAA regional flight procedures office.  That is under Aviation System Standards.

Response:

You’re wasting your time calling them.  The procedure "belongs" to the FAA regional flight procedures office.  That is under Aviation System

Standards. I emailed NACO at the address given on their website for chart errors.  I got a polite call today explaining that NACO is responsible for the graphica and the FAA is responsible for the text and procedure design.  In this case, the graphical layout is the principal error, and I am told that the graphic will be fixed and the new version will appear in the April approach books. That is as straightforward as one can expect for updating an procedure like this… chalk one up for the FAA. Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com

Response:

Wow….A big high 5 for rec.aviation.ifr Good job. SK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re wasting your time calling them.  The procedure "belongs" to the FAA regional flight procedures office.  That is under Aviation System Standards. I emailed NACO at the address given on their website for chart errors.  I got a polite call today explaining that NACO is responsible for the graphica and the FAA is responsible for the text and procedure design.  In this case, the graphical layout is the principal error, and I am told that the graphic will be fixed and the new version will appear in the April approach books. That is as straightforward as one can expect for updating an procedure like this… chalk one up for the FAA. Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com

Response:

What I said is if you get to 1,300 in less than 2.6 miles, which is presumably before you pass through the radial, you then turn left as necessary from runway heading to intercept the radial. But a left turn shortly after departing will not intercept the radial.

I think if you read Sammy’s statement above "… you then turn left WHEN necessary from runway heading …", you get his meaning better… Richard, BTW, great article in the AOPA Mag! Cheers, John Clonts Temple, Texas N7NZ

Response:

Weird. How far is the end of the runway from LDN019? What happens if you obey the procedure but reach 1800′ before reaching LDN019? In that case you would turn to 160 before getting there… and fly 160 for ever. Presumably if you reach 1800′ before reaching LDN019 you just turn on course to the radial… but it isn’t obvious.     John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I came across an interesting IFR Departure Procedure recently during some training and I wonder if anyone has flown it before and/or if anyone else has any comments. For those who are AOPA members, here is a link to the MRB (Martinsburg WV) Trixy Two Departure: http://download.aopa.org/iap/20031225/ne4of4/mrb_trixy_two_departure.pdf Consider departing Runway 26 and turning to a heading of 160 as instructed in order to intercept the LDN R-019. The chart makes it appear as if the assigned heading will intercept the course from the east, but in fact it is necessary to first fly through the desired radial and then intercept it from the west. For those who use Jeppesen plates, the procedure is depicted much more clearly, with the departure heading of 160 indeed crossing the desired radial before turning back to intercept. Any other thoughts? Has anyone tried this "for real"? — Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Presumably if you reach 1800′ before reaching LDN019 you just turn on course to the radial… but it isn’t obvious.

Response:

I came across an interesting IFR Departure Procedure recently during some training and I wonder if anyone has flown it before and/or if anyone else has any comments. For those who are AOPA members, here is a link to the MRB (Martinsburg WV) Trixy Two Departure: http://download.aopa.org/iap/20031225/ne4of4/mrb_trixy_two_departure.pdf Consider departing Runway 26 and turning to a heading of 160 as instructed in order to intercept the LDN R-019. The chart makes it appear as if the assigned heading will intercept the course from the east, but in fact it is necessary to first fly through the desired radial and then intercept it from the west. For those who use Jeppesen plates, the procedure is depicted much more clearly, with the departure heading of 160 indeed crossing the desired radial before turning back to intercept. Any other thoughts? Has anyone tried this "for real"? — Richard Kaplan, CFII www.flyimc.com

Response:

Brit mag octane boost claim

Question:

Hey there, First off, I must start by saying that this write-up on gasoline octane ratings isn’t my work – its something I found on the Internet in a news group some time ago. I am hoping this information will be useful to others – it was to me. The theory hasn’t changed. The octane number of a gasoline is NOT a measure of it’s hotness’ or coolness in the burning process, and it is NOT a measure of how ‘powerful’ it is. The octane number is simply a measure of how good the gasoline is at resisting detonation (knocking/pinging). The internal combustion engine is – in simple terms – a gas pump. The higher the gas pressure inside the cylinder, the more ‘push’ there is on the pistons, and this means the higher the power output will be. We create this pressure by heating a cylinder full of air; and we do this by adding a little gasoline to the air and igniting it with a spark. The engineers aim to get the highest possible pressure without creating uncontrolled burning of the gasoline. Detonation (pinging/knocking) occurs after the fuel is ignited by the spark plug, but before the flame front has finished moving across the cylinder to burn all the fuel/air mixture (don’t confuse it with pre-ignition, which occurs when the fuel is ignited before the spark occurs). The reason why detonation occurs relates to the nature of gasoline. Gasoline is a mixture of different hydrocarbon molecules, and some of these molecules decompose more easily than others when heated under pressure. We ignite the fuel/air mixture with a spark, and the flame front starts moving across the cylinder. This increases the temperature and pressure of the remaining fuel/air mixture, which starts to decompose before the flame front reaches it. If this decomposition produces ‘auto-ignition’ compounds (those which will start burning without a spark), you end up with an uncontrolled over-rapid burning of the remaining fuel, which sets up an opposing pressure wave in the cylinder. This uncontrolled burning and the opposing pressure wave produces the characteristic clicking/pinging sound of detonation, and results in the piston getting a ‘hammer blow’ instead of a steady push. These hammer blows can quickly destroy the engine. Higher octane fuels are better at controlling the decomposition into auto-ignition compounds than lower octane fuels. They do this in several ways – by interfering with and reducing the actual decomposition, or by chemically reacting with the decomposing gasoline so less auto-ignition compounds are formed. There are three main sources of heat inside the cylinder which contribute to the decomposition of the fuel: 1. The residual heat in the heads, cylinders and pistons. 2. The heat produced by the ignition of the fuel itself. This depends on the nature of the fuel, and on the fuel/air mixture – rich mixtures burn a little cooler, lean mixtures burn hotter. 3. The heat of compression before the spark. Compression of a gas raises the temperature of the gas. We want this to happen, because the higher the compression, the higher the pressure rise after the fuel is burned – giving us more power. The heat of compression (compression ratio) is easy to adjust in the design of an engine, so this is the one used to match an engine with the fuel it will be using. It’s all a balancing act, and because the air-cooled engine runs hotter (more residual heat), you need to limit the amount of additional heat produced in the cylinders prior to ignition (lower compression ratio). The octane number came about as a result of research carried out in the 1920s and 30s by Sir Harry Ricardo ("The Internal Combustion Engine" 1925 and 35 and other books) and Kettering (of Kettering ignition system fame). Ricardo had previously developed an ingenious variable compression test engine when he was asked to develop an engine for the British WW1 tank in 1916, and this test engine was used in his subsequent research. The British War Ministry used to order fuel by Specific Gravity and the fuel they gave him to use in the tank he assessed (years later) as having an octane rating of about 45. His tank engine was limited to a compression ratio of about 3.5:1 to cope with this poor fuel! (Incidentally, this engine was extremely innovative for it’s day, and was utterly reliable – so it also got used as a stationary (generator) engine by the British army for their field stations all over France, and by the British Navy for it’s patrol boats, as well as about 12,000 tanks. The Army and Navy loved it because it would run on just about any liquid fuel – it would even run on a kerosene/gasoline mix if that was all they had! It was just as happy (but gave no extra power) on high grade aviation gasoline. It was discovered that Iso-Octane had a very high knock resistance, but Heptane had a very poor knock resistance. Because these two compounds are very similar in other respects, they made a useful comparison point for gasoline. So the octane number is a comparison with a mixture of Iso-Octane and Heptane. 91 Octane is equivalent to mixing 91% Iso-Octane with 9% Heptane. The discovery in the late 1920s that certain lead products enhanced the anti-detonating characteristics was a revolution in fuel design, as engines could be designed to operate at higher compressions for better efficiency. So gasoline’s became ‘doped’ with tetra-ethyl or tetra-methyl lead to enhance their octane numbers. Another useful feature of lead in gasoline is that the burned lead products coated the hot exhaust valve seating area, and prevented a problem called Valve Seat Recession (VSR) which results in the exhaust valve ‘eating’ it’s way into the head. With the less advanced ’soft’ cast iron heads of the day, this was a real bonus. VSR is not a problem with newer engines with aluminum heads, as they typically have hardened valve seat inserts. Gasoline which is high in Aromatics has a high ‘natural’ octane rating and so needs less additives to increase the octane rating. Unfortunately, the aromatic compounds are also those most responsible for atmospheric pollution, so these compounds are being reduced in gasoline in many countries. This creates another dilemma – how to increase the octane rating without lead additives, and with reduced aromatic compounds in the fuel. A number of other chemical compounds called Oxygenates have been developed to enhance the natural octane number of gasoline’s. The most common one used is Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE). Other compounds include TAME, ETBE, Methyl Alcohol and Ethyl Alcohol (Gasohol). But MTBE and the other oxygenates contains ‘used’ oxygen, so cars using oxygenates fuels burn MORE fuel (because there is less ‘fuel’ in the fuel) and this increases pollution anyway (Source – "Cleaner Burning Gasoline" California EPA). And there is a second effect here too – carburetor cars cannot adjust the fuel/air mixture ‘on the run’ like computer equipped fuel injected cars can, so they run lean when run on oxygenated fuels. This is because carburetors meter out a volume of fuel into the intake air; they can’t measure the amount of ‘fuel’ in the fuel. Lean burning creates more heat in the cylinders, and this ‘excess’ heat raises the octane number needed. It’s a vicious circle, so If you can avoid using oxygenated fuels – do so. If you have to use oxygenated fuels, you may improve the car’s performance by using a slightly larger main jet in the carburetor. Doing this brings the mixture back to the correct setting, which helps reduce the extra unwanted heat in the engine, and reduces the likelihood you’ll need a higher than normal octane gasoline to compensate. And if your engine is due for a rebuild, and you have to use oxygenated fuels, consider using a slightly lower compression ratio. Sir Harry Ricardo used the ‘research’ method of measuring the octane number using a constant speed (1500 rpm) engine in laboratory conditions. This is the RON – Research Octane Number. The other method is the MON – Motor Octane Number, which uses a harsher test regime more closely related to road conditions. So the MON is usually lower than the RON. Often you may see the octane rating quoted as (R+M)/2. This means an average of the two methods is used to give the fuel a number. This number method is often called ‘pump octane’ in the US. Using a higher octane gasoline in an engine designed for low octane WILL NOT increase it’s performance – the octane number is a MINIMUM needed to eliminate detonation, and that’s all it is. In conclusion, the octane rating is a measure of the fuel’s ability to CONTROL the burning process (to prevent detonation); it is not a function of burning ‘hotter’ or ‘colder’. And the higher the compression ratio (in the same engine), the higher the octane number needed. Hope this helps. — Page & Peggy Nicholson Trabuco Canyon, CA 2002 Mustang GT 1999 Cobra (#3675 of 4040) 2003 Expedition http://members.cox.net/Page92679

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw a test in a British car mag. regading NOS Racing octane.  They started with 91 octane gas (wonder why when they have 99 there?) and added the NOS. It chopped 0.5 sec off the 0-60 time.  The car was just a plain old "car" with a 6 cylinder in it.  Some offroad magazines have said that too much octane is actually not good for performance.  I’m wondering if anyone has experienced a major boost in performance using octane boost when 93-94 octane Sunoco is readily available? -Rich

Response:

I saw a test in a British car mag. regading NOS Racing octane.  They started with 91 octane gas (wonder why when they have 99 there?) and added the NOS. It chopped 0.5 sec off the 0-60 time.  The car was just a plain old "car" with a 6 cylinder in it.  Some offroad magazines have said that too much octane is actually not good for performance.  I’m wondering if anyone has experienced a major boost in performance using octane boost when 93-94 octane Sunoco is readily available?   -Rich

Response:

I wont launch into the ‘increasing octane with no other changes…..’ rant. I did, however, google up "nos octane boost" and the first thing I saw was "the choice of the pros". AFAIK, all of the professional gasoline racing groups/classes/types/styles/ad infinitum use a spec gasoline….. no additives allowed. I can’t see there being much choice if no choice is allowed. If the gasoline has a high enough octane rating for the application, increasing the octane rating will improve nothing. Jim Warman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw a test in a British car mag. regading NOS Racing octane.  They started with 91 octane gas (wonder why when they have 99 there?) and added the NOS. It chopped 0.5 sec off the 0-60 time.  The car was just a plain old "car" with a 6 cylinder in it.  Some offroad magazines have said that too much octane is actually not good for performance.  I’m wondering if anyone has experienced a major boost in performance using octane boost when 93-94 octane Sunoco is readily available? -Rich

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wont launch into the ‘increasing octane with no other changes…..’ rant. I did, however, google up "nos octane boost" and the first thing I saw was "the choice of the pros". AFAIK, all of the professional gasoline racing groups/classes/types/styles/ad infinitum use a spec gasoline….. no additives allowed. I can’t see there being much choice if no choice is allowed. If the gasoline has a high enough octane rating for the application, increasing the octane rating will improve nothing. Jim Warman

Hey Memset…sounds like time for you to post your gasoline faq again! Matt 89 5.0 GT Vert Yay Sunny day today!

Response:

According to the label on the NOS bottle, it can boost your octane by 0.7 for a 15 gallon tank.  So, starting with 91 octane, going to 91.7 isn’t what I would call a major change. John

Response:

Suggestions for gifts for a new pilot?? Please help!!

Question:

Hi, I have a friend that just started taking flying lessons. His birthday is coming up and I’d like to get him something flying-related that he might enjoy.  It could be something for a new or experienced pilot. I can spend upto $200. Any recommendations? What types of things/gadgets/books/accessories have you found useful? He is very particular about quality/top-of-the-line stuff, so any suggestions for electronics, please include any good quality stuff. Thank you so much!! Ulla

Response:

How about a transceiver everyone could use of of those. jason http://www.pilotboard.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I have a friend that just started taking flying lessons. His birthday is coming up and I’d like to get him something flying-related that he might enjoy.  It could be something for a new or experienced pilot. I can spend upto $200. Any recommendations? What types of things/gadgets/books/accessories have you found useful? He is very particular about quality/top-of-the-line stuff, so any suggestions for electronics, please include any good quality stuff. Thank you so much!! Ulla

Response:

He is very particular about quality/top-of-the-line stuff, so any suggestions for electronics, please include any good quality stuff.

You might check into buying him a good flight bag. If you decide to do so, you can solicit opinions here. In my opinion, the best flight bags are not sold as flight bags; mine has a compartment that resembles a briefcase and another that has no partitions. Most flight bags on the market are identical to sport bags in everything except price. If you’re in the U.S., then check with his flight school to see what materials they recommend for studying for the written exam. You can get a nice bag and fill it with a private pilot’s preparation book (such as Machado’s manual) and the Gliem (or other) test prep book for less than $200. Bill Kershner is another good author. You can find some books like this at Borders. George Patterson       God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the       good fortune to run into the ones I like, and the eyesight to tell the       difference.

Response:

The best suggestion would be a gift certificate to Sportys.com, for gear, or if he rents, a gift certificate for flight time from his FBO. Buying a headset for someone would be hard. They need to try various models themselves in order to find one that is comfortable to them for long flights. If you buy it anyway, make sure it’s returnable if he doesn’t like it. Buying a flight bag would be like buying a purse for a woman. Too difficult unless you know just the one they want. Only the pilot knows how much "stuff" he would typically carry and then know which size bac and which type of outside pockets would work. Etc, etc….. Edward

Response:

I thought you had decided on a headset when you asked this on rec.aviation.student…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I have a friend that just started taking flying lessons. His birthday is coming up and I’d like to get him something flying-related that he might enjoy.  It could be something for a new or experienced pilot. I can spend upto $200.

Response:

Books.  Good reading.  He’ll get plenty of advice on training material here and elsewhere.  Buy him a good read that will complement his involvement. 1) ‘Song of the Sky’, by Guy Murchie (out of print, but usually available used on Amazon) 2) ‘Stick and Rudder’, by Wolfgange Langeweische 3) ‘Night Flight’;  ’Southern Mail’, by Antoine de St.-Exupery 4) ‘A Hostage to Fortune’; ‘Fate is the Hunter’;  by Ernest Gann 5) also ‘Blaze of Noon’, ‘Island in the Sky’, ‘Band of Brothers’, ‘Gentlemen of Adventure’, and ‘Flying Circus’, by the same author. Good luck. JG

Response:

There’s always a good pair of sunglasses. H.

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Any recommendations? What types of things/gadgets/books/accessories have you found useful?

How ’bout a getaway weekend for the two of you in our beautiful "Pan Am Clipper Suite"? See some pix of it at http://www.alexisparkinn.com/pan_am_clipper.htm It’s not a "gadget" — but it’s a lot more fun!  :-) — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He is very particular about quality/top-of-the-line stuff, so any suggestions for electronics, please include any good quality stuff. Thank you so much!! Ulla

Response:

H Buy him/her some flying hours or give money so he/she can buy. Big John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There’s always a good pair of sunglasses. H.

Response:

Routing of traffic out of TEB and EWR

Question:

I live in Montclair, which is a few miles southwest of TEB and northwest of EWR.  We see a fair bit of low flying traffic overhead that’s likely out of TEB heading for SBJ.   But some of my neighbors – mostly living further south than I – claim to be seeing traffic that they believe to be out of EWR also flying relatively low overhead.  This strikes me as unlikely (although there is a severe weather DP from EWR’s runways 4 L and R that could be a culprit on occasion), but not impossible. How would I find out?  I checked Jeppesen, and that severe weather DP is the only DP I could find for EWR.  So anything else has to be convention.  How do I learn such conventions? They also claim to be seeing more traffic this summer than "usual".  My guess is that this is open windows and the increased traffic out of TEB (I’ve seen a 70% thrown about since 2001), but – again – how can I check? Or does someone here happen to know? Thanks…         Andrew

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But some of my neighbors – mostly living further south than I – claim to be seeing traffic that they believe to be out of EWR also flying relatively low overhead.  This strikes me as unlikely (although there is a severe weather DP from EWR’s runways 4 L and R that could be a culprit on occasion), but not impossible. How would I find out?  I checked Jeppesen, and that severe weather DP is the only DP I could find for EWR.  So anything else has to be convention.  How do I learn such conventions? They also claim to be seeing more traffic this summer than "usual".  My guess is that this is open windows and the increased traffic out of TEB (I’ve seen a 70% thrown about since 2001), but – again – how can I check? Or does someone here happen to know?

Do you have access to the northeast instrument approach plates, either the Jepp plates or the gov’t version?  There are more than one DP and STAR for both airports.   Newark has six arrival and four departure procedures, although I do not know if all are currently active, as I have no reason to fly into there.  TEB has three arrival and one departure procedures. Not sure if this will help you or not, but I’ve flown IFR out of TEB a few times this summer.  When departing, I am always assigned the TETERBORO FIVE DP, which requires aircraft departing to the south to climb 1,500 feet, then turn to a heading of 280, continue at 1,500 ft until 4.5 DME, then up to 2,000 ft while remaining on a heading of 280 until further instructed by ATC. The first time I was flying this, I was unsure of which altitude to report climbing to when I checked in with departure (even though I was comfortable with flying the procedure), so I checked in with "climbing to 2,000 feet" (thinking he wanted to hear the final altitude of the departure procedure). The controller tersely answered that I am only allowed up to 1,500 ft due to Newark’s approaching traffic. For those not aviation-minded, it is difficult to accurately judge the altitude of large aircraft (those going into EWR) when standing on the ground, so I would suspect your neighbors are probably misjudging it to some degree.   Keep in mind that the airspace above your heads is very complex and I would suspect that when you peruse the departure and arrival procedures for all of these airports, you will have a better idea of what min/max altitudes these aircraft are flying. — Peter

Response:

Do you have access to the northeast instrument approach plates, either the Jepp plates or the gov’t version?  

Yes. There are more than one DP and STAR for both airports.   Newark has six arrival and four departure procedures, although I do not know if all are currently active, as I have no reason to fly into there.  

I’ve only found DPs Newark 7 and Mariner 2 for EWR.  Admittedly, this is on the older Jepps that I keep in the office.  I’ve not checked the books in my flight bag. I’ve discounted the Mariner DP, as this is only for severe weather.  The Newark 7 would appear to be a possible issue for aircraft departing runways 4L and 4R, as I think we’re about heading from EWR.   But – and here’s where it gets really weird – my conversations over time with one particular person have left me thinking that he’d aircraft overhead only when EWR was using 22L and R. So I’m *still* thinking it’s TEB traffic.  But I don’t feel like I’ve proven it one way or the other. BTW, I’m concentrating on departure because I think that this is more significant.  Ultimately, I think that this is a noise issue.  And I think aircraft climbing are going to make more noise than aircraft descending. On the other hand, I’ve no idea what an airliner holding 2500 or 3000 or 4000 would sound like on the ground. [...] For those not aviation-minded, it is difficult to accurately judge the altitude of large aircraft (those going into EWR) when standing on the ground,

Or aircraft type, for some of the larger planes out of TEB. For that matter, it’s tough for *me* to judge altitude on something I see in the sky.           – Andrew

Response:

Best prep method for CFI(I) written and practical exams

Question:

check out www.junebonesteel.com — Jim Burns III

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Preparing for the CFI: Having given many CFI checkrides, I would reiterate some things in other posts, and maybe add one or two. 1.  Prepare. Not at the rote, level, not at the understanding level, not at the application level, but be proficient and excellent at the correlation level. 2.  From the minute you start, sitting at a desk, to the minute you get back from the flight and are once again sitting at the desk, TEACH. Teach, and do it some more. The entire test is about teaching and that includes DETECTING common student errors. 3.  Know opart 61 backwards and forwards, part 91 backwards, and the PTS with fluency. 4.  Consider the spiral bound books published in Arizona by June Bonesteel, they cover almost every conceivable question scenario and she has been a CFI initial designee for years. 5.  Know maintenance, ADs, required tests, and know them well. 6.  Never bluff unless you make it clear that you are, in other words use your sense of humor. Always remember that it is ok to look some things up. Not everything, just a few things. And always know where to find things. 7.  know the endorsements perfectly, and which ones are on the student certificate, which are in the logbook, and which have time limits and what the time limits are. Be prepared for in depth work here. For example all the options for the BFR. Do you know how to handle 61.75 candidates? 8.  Go in well dressed, well prepared, paperwork perfect, well organized and you start at the top and maybe lose some points. But that is much better than turning up sick, disorganized, poor paperwork, unable to tell if your airplane is legal, that way you start a the very bottom, and have to show perfection. Sorry, that is simple psychology. 9.  Know how the FAa system works, from medicals, student certificates through ATP, and how the work flows from the applicant, to the CFI, then to the designee, then to the FSDO, then to OKC, and what can go wrong in between. 10  Be a true instructor, even if you use it to build time, you have the future in your hands. Be professional. 11  Remember that no designee nor any inspector ever failed any applicant. The applicant simply didn’t meet the standards that day at that time. Good luck, I hope some of those points help. Simon

Response:

Thanks, that’s just the sort of advice I was looking for, especially the pointers about turn-off attitudes.  Time to start cracking the books!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Preparing for the CFI: Having given many CFI checkrides, I would reiterate some things in other posts, and maybe add one or two. 1.  Prepare. Not at the rote, level, not at the understanding level, not at the application level, but be proficient and excellent at the correlation level. 2.  From the minute you start, sitting at a desk, to the minute you get back from the flight and are once again sitting at the desk, TEACH. Teach, and do it some more. The entire test is about teaching and that includes DETECTING common student errors. 3.  Know opart 61 backwards and forwards, part 91 backwards, and the PTS with fluency. 4.  Consider the spiral bound books published in Arizona by June Bonesteel, they cover almost every conceivable question scenario and she has been a CFI initial designee for years. 5.  Know maintenance, ADs, required tests, and know them well. 6.  Never bluff unless you make it clear that you are, in other words use your sense of humor. Always remember that it is ok to look some things up. Not everything, just a few things. And always know where to find things. 7.  know the endorsements perfectly, and which ones are on the student certificate, which are in the logbook, and which have time limits and what the time limits are. Be prepared for in depth work here. For example all the options for the BFR. Do you know how to handle 61.75 candidates? 8.  Go in well dressed, well prepared, paperwork perfect, well organized and you start at the top and maybe lose some points. But that is much better than turning up sick, disorganized, poor paperwork, unable to tell if your airplane is legal, that way you start a the very bottom, and have to show perfection. Sorry, that is simple psychology. 9.  Know how the FAa system works, from medicals, student certificates through ATP, and how the work flows from the applicant, to the CFI, then to the designee, then to the FSDO, then to OKC, and what can go wrong in between. 10  Be a true instructor, even if you use it to build time, you have the future in your hands. Be professional. 11  Remember that no designee nor any inspector ever failed any applicant. The applicant simply didn’t meet the standards that day at that time. Good luck, I hope some of those points help. Simon

Response:

To ad to David’s remarks, having never read it, I just finished reading Richard Bach’s Jonathan Livingston Seagull.  I wish I’d read it before taking my CFI checkride.  It’s about stepping stones, but not with the goal of jet jockey in mind, purely with the goal of teaching and the desire to teach.  I also found my inspector very willing to pass on her knowledge and tips on teaching. — Jim Burns III

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just finished this process (and passed!), so hopefully my experience will help you. 1.  The Knowledge Tests — I used the ASA test prep book for both the FOI and CFI knowledge tests getting 100 and 96 percent respectively. 2.  The Practical Test — I read the "Airplane Flying Handbook," "Pilot’s Book of Aeronautical Knowledge," and the 2003 FAR/AIM extensively.  They are all FAA publications but contain a lot of good info (the FAR being the most important as you know).  My study strategy was to work my way, point by point through the CFI PTS and make sure I knew a lot about each point that it mentions.  In addition to the two books above I also used my two Jeppesen textbooks from PP/IA/Comm, the ASA CFI Oral prep book (didn’t find this particularly useful), the Comm/PP PTS booklets, the POH for the airplane, and the "Proficient Pilot" series by Barry Schiff.  In addition to all of the reading and studying, I had my instructor give me a series of mock oral exams.  Essentially, you are becoming an expert (or professional) on flying and aviation.  Acquire a good, solid, comprehensive knowledge of every subject area in the CFI PTS and you should do well. The written and oral tests weren’t as bad as they had been made out to be for me because I was well prepared and confident that I could answer any reasonable question he threw at me.  Any examiner can trip you up on a trick question or obscure trivia if they want to.  What is important, though, is that you have a broad and comprehensive knowledge of everything that is important when teaching Private and Commercial students. I also think that attitude is an important part of the CFI checkride (as it should be with any checkride).  My examiner told me several stories of CFI applicants who made it clear that this was merely a stepping stone for them and that they were headed to greater things (i.e. the right seat of a jet somewhere).  That didn’t impress him. Impress him/her with your desire to train new pilots and don’t give the impression that you’re only in it for the hours.  Not only that, be a good listener during your checkride, because examiners often enjoy passing on bits of information that they have learned during their career. Good Luck! David

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just wrapping up the commercial ASEL, want to add CFI and CFII.  Any suggestions for the best methods to use?  I’ve gotten 95+ on the PP, IA and Comm writtens using Gleim and ASA self study, but I’ve heard the CFI written and oral are a real bear

Response:

Preparing for the CFI: Having given many CFI checkrides, I would reiterate some things in other posts, and maybe add one or two. 1.  Prepare. Not at the rote, level, not at the understanding level, not at the application level, but be proficient and excellent at the correlation level. 2.  From the minute you start, sitting at a desk, to the minute you get back from the flight and are once again sitting at the desk, TEACH. Teach, and do it some more. The entire test is about teaching and that includes DETECTING common student errors. 3.  Know opart 61 backwards and forwards, part 91 backwards, and the PTS with fluency. 4.  Consider the spiral bound books published in Arizona by June Bonesteel, they cover almost every conceivable question scenario and she has been a CFI initial designee for years. 5.  Know maintenance, ADs, required tests, and know them well. 6.  Never bluff unless you make it clear that you are, in other words use your sense of humor. Always remember that it is ok to look some things up. Not everything, just a few things. And always know where to find things. 7.  know the endorsements perfectly, and which ones are on the student certificate, which are in the logbook, and which have time limits and what the time limits are. Be prepared for in depth work here. For example all the options for the BFR. Do you know how to handle 61.75 candidates? 8.  Go in well dressed, well prepared, paperwork perfect, well organized and you start at the top and maybe lose some points. But that is much better than turning up sick, disorganized, poor paperwork, unable to tell if your airplane is legal, that way you start a the very bottom, and have to show perfection. Sorry, that is simple psychology. 9.  Know how the FAa system works, from medicals, student certificates through ATP, and how the work flows from the applicant, to the CFI, then to the designee, then to the FSDO, then to OKC, and what can go wrong in between. 10  Be a true instructor, even if you use it to build time, you have the future in your hands. Be professional. 11  Remember that no designee nor any inspector ever failed any applicant. The applicant simply didn’t meet the standards that day at that time. Good luck, I hope some of those points help. Simon

Response:

To ad to David’s remarks, having never read it, I just finished reading Richard Bach’s Jonathan Livingston Seagull.  I wish I’d read it before taking my CFI checkride.  It’s about stepping stones, but not with the goal of jet jockey in mind, purely with the goal of teaching and the desire to teach.

If you liked JLS, you’ll love Bach’s "Air Ferrets Aloft".  It’s a cross between Winnie The Poo, Fate Is The Hunter, and Sleepless In Seattle.  I know that sounds bizarre, but it’s the only way I can think to describe it.  It was the most fun I’ve had reading a book in a long time.

Response:

Just wrapping up the commercial ASEL, want to add CFI and CFII.  Any suggestions for the best methods to use?  I’ve gotten 95+ on the PP, IA and Comm writtens using Gleim and ASA self study, but I’ve heard the CFI written and oral are a real bear

Response:

what about actually knowing your stuff inside and out and not just cramming?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just wrapping up the commercial ASEL, want to add CFI and CFII.  Any suggestions for the best methods to use?  I’ve gotten 95+ on the PP, IA and Comm writtens using Gleim and ASA self study, but I’ve heard the CFI written and oral are a real bear

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For the CFI / AGI & FOI  "writtens" I used Dauntless Software at FAAtest.com.  I got 96/98/98.  Now I’m using it for the CFI-I and IGI. For the Oral prep I used Gleim and ASA’s Oral Prep guides as well as every instructor I could get to sit down and question me.  I found a college prof that had just became a CFI and he worked with me on my presentation and teaching skills.  He was great at asking me "why" and then playing "dumb". — Jim Burns III

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just wrapping up the commercial ASEL, want to add CFI and CFII.  Any suggestions for the best methods to use?  I’ve gotten 95+ on the PP, IA and Comm writtens using Gleim and ASA self study, but I’ve heard the CFI written and oral are a real bear

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I just finished this process (and passed!), so hopefully my experience will help you. 1.  The Knowledge Tests — I used the ASA test prep book for both the FOI and CFI knowledge tests getting 100 and 96 percent respectively. 2.  The Practical Test — I read the "Airplane Flying Handbook," "Pilot’s Book of Aeronautical Knowledge," and the 2003 FAR/AIM extensively.  They are all FAA publications but contain a lot of good info (the FAR being the most important as you know).  My study strategy was to work my way, point by point through the CFI PTS and make sure I knew a lot about each point that it mentions.  In addition to the two books above I also used my two Jeppesen textbooks from PP/IA/Comm, the ASA CFI Oral prep book (didn’t find this particularly useful), the Comm/PP PTS booklets, the POH for the airplane, and the "Proficient Pilot" series by Barry Schiff.  In addition to all of the reading and studying, I had my instructor give me a series of mock oral exams.  Essentially, you are becoming an expert (or professional) on flying and aviation.  Acquire a good, solid, comprehensive knowledge of every subject area in the CFI PTS and you should do well. The written and oral tests weren’t as bad as they had been made out to be for me because I was well prepared and confident that I could answer any reasonable question he threw at me.  Any examiner can trip you up on a trick question or obscure trivia if they want to.  What is important, though, is that you have a broad and comprehensive knowledge of everything that is important when teaching Private and Commercial students. I also think that attitude is an important part of the CFI checkride (as it should be with any checkride).  My examiner told me several stories of CFI applicants who made it clear that this was merely a stepping stone for them and that they were headed to greater things (i.e. the right seat of a jet somewhere).  That didn’t impress him. Impress him/her with your desire to train new pilots and don’t give the impression that you’re only in it for the hours.  Not only that, be a good listener during your checkride, because examiners often enjoy passing on bits of information that they have learned during their career. Good Luck! David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just wrapping up the commercial ASEL, want to add CFI and CFII.  Any suggestions for the best methods to use?  I’ve gotten 95+ on the PP, IA and Comm writtens using Gleim and ASA self study, but I’ve heard the CFI written and oral are a real bear

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