Question:
If the feds privatize ATC, what will happen all those 6 figure salaries that the naive Ms. Garvey handed out in the last contract? What will happen to all those big, shiny, expensive pick-up trucks in the tower’s parking lot? Convince me that the union isn’t harping on safety when the issue seems to be fiscal. Would the union accept less wages if it meant that Rapcon could stay federal? D.
Response:
If the feds privatize ATC, what will happen all those 6 figure salaries that the naive Ms. Garvey handed out in the last contract? What will happen to all those big, shiny, expensive pick-up trucks in the tower’s parking lot? Convince me that the union isn’t harping on safety when the issue seems to be fiscal. Would the union accept less wages if it meant that Rapcon could stay federal?
What union has ever accepted less wages?
Response:
If the feds privatize ATC, what will happen all those 6 figure salaries that the naive Ms. Garvey handed out in the last contract?
Who knows? Whatever happens, pilots and passengers would be footing the bill anyway. "Aircraft with an emergency, stand by. Aircraft bidding on the next arrival slot, go ahead with your bid…" What will happen to all those big, shiny, expensive pick-up trucks in the tower’s parking lot?
Nothing. Controllers pay cash for big, shiny, expensive trucks and very few guys working in a tower are making 6 figures… Convince me that the union isn’t harping on safety when the issue seems to be fiscal.
Do you have a specific example you want to be convinced on? The question comes down to whether or not safety would be degraded under a privatization plan. I am not convinced one way or the other that it would be. My experience as a safety rep for the union has been that NATCA is far more concerned with safety than the FAA. The FAA is more concerned with image, liability and politics. That is why whenever something happens, the first words out of the FAA’s mouth is "Staffing is adequate, morale is high, and safety is never compromised…" Yeah, right. One thing I do know is that all of those overpaid, whining controllers are working a hell of a lot of airplanes with virtually no help these days. Here’s one for you: We are severely understaffed today. When I first arrived at ZTL over a decade ago, we were averaging 5000 operations a day. We operated with at least two controllers working a sector (R and D sides), we never combined ATC sectors between sunrise and sunset, we always had the staffing to provide a "Tracker" controller to a busy position so that a team of three ATCS could work busy pushes etc etc. In my area (had 6 sectors then), we had 68 controllers assigned to cover our 24 hours a day, 7 day a week operation. Today, our AVERAGE traffic count is in excess of 8500 operations per day, and we have had several days above 10,000. Since 9/11, ZTL has seen a rebound to pre-9/11 traffic levels and since 01/02, ZTL has been the busiest ATC facility in the world in operational traffic count. In my area, we have added an extra sector to handle this traffic explosion, so we now have 7 sectors. Because of retirements and attrition, we now have 51 controllers assigned to cover our 24 hours a day, 7 days a week operation. Of those 51 controllers, only 48 are CPC’s (Fully certified journeyman controllers). The other 3 are trainees. Of the 48 CPC’s we have to work traffic in my area, 5 of those persons have lost their medical clearances of which 2 are on stress medication, 2 have high blood pressure, and one is a post-suicide attempt. So, we have effectively 43 controllers to cover 7 sectors. "Staffing is adequate…" The way we handle 8500+ operations a day with 43 controllers is to work combined sectors with minimal staffing. One guy does the work of 4 or 5. When it gets busy, we steal the D-side from one sector and assign them to another, like robbing Peter to pay Paul. We call these people "firemen" because they rush from fire to fire. Controllers in this environment are working mandatory overtime, either 10 hour days or 6 day weeks or sometimes a combination of the two, in order to provide a modicum of staffing. Worse, facility management cannot routinely schedule this overtime because we have "run out of money in the national operations budget…" So, management has to wait until a staffing crisis develops on a shift and then they TRY to call in someone. In other words, they know we are going to be short of help on any given shift, but because there is no overtime money in the budget, they cannot schedule the overtime in advance. Instead, they make desperate phone calls to off duty controllers begging the senior ones and ordering the junior ones in to work. This charade goes on every day in my area. To combat it, you buy caller ID and only answer your telephone if you feel like working another six day week. "Morale is high…" While we go careening along racing our ever shrinking workforce against ever increasing traffic levels, FAA is foisting equipment like DSR, URET and STARS on the workforce to "improve productivity" and "increase throughput". This equipment is designed by engineers who "know what is good for ATC"with minimal input from the workforce in spite of what the FAA publically touts. DSR, for example, was installed in my building short of several critical controller tools. (IE- as installed, the old M1 equipment was superior). We refused to use it until they added what we needed, which they did as an after thought. The result- the Tracker and R-side share a common keyboard and input equipment. During a push, one or the other has to completely give up data entry. I guess it doesn’t much matter anymore, since we can rarely staff a tracker anyway. URET (User Requested Evaluation Tool) is another "key" piece of our push towards "freeflight". It incorporates a "conflict probe" and replaces the paper flight progress strips with an electronic data panel to keep track of flight data and control instructions. In short it is supposed to allow 1 controller to do the work of 2 by effectively replacing the human D-side with the URET machine. Problem is, the conflict probe doesn’t work, and detecting conflicts is what the humans get payed to do anyway. We don’t need it. Further, the flight progress stripes aren’t broken. They work very well as is and we don’t need an electronic replacement for them. Controllers can write and talk at the same time, and at virtually the same speed. Every instruction we issue is written on these strips and serve as memery joggers etc. We use arcane strip marking that allows two controllers to work busy traffic without ever saying a direct word to one another, just writing on strips etc. URET takes the paper strips away and provides no mechanism to record control instuctions issued to traffic. For what??? This "leap of progress" is a POS that is poorly conceived, poorly implemented and is a poor replacement for the paper flight progress strip, yet FAA is implementing it in all of the busy eastern Centers except at ZTL, where the union refused to accept it. The simple fact is that the ATC system is working more traffic with less controllers than ever before, and the trend shows no sign of abating. All of the new quipment in the world cannot replace vital human beings in the loop, private or federal. Operational errors are skyrocketing as the traffic overwhelms the dwindling controller workforce. Meanwhile, nationwide, we are hiring about 40 enroute ATC candiates every 3 months. At ZTL, we are racking up controller errors like there is no tomorrow, well on our way to another recored OE/OD year. Where it will end, everyone knows but no one wants to say. "Safety is never compromised…" Sure it isn’t. Privatization might at least bring about some regulation to squlech air traffic growth, either by socking it to airlines for over scheduling peak time slots or by killing off business and general aviation by overcharging them to death. That will be great for American aviation [LOL]. Boy, that’ll be just great for the US economy too [LOLOL]… So maybe even if the controllers are screaming safety over what is actually a fiscal argument it may be irreleveant. The privatization plans all point to Nav Canada (bloody mess), Britain’s NATS (going broke and getting ready to soak their customers with rate hikes) and a host of other small ATC systems that have gone private, holding them up as models of success. The traffic that flows through all of these private systems annually COMBINED doesn’t equal half of the total annual count for the USA alone. Fiscally, we would be better off off spending the money on federal personnel assets to staff the system fully rather than selling off the system to the lowest bidder. Would the union accept less wages if it meant that Rapcon could stay federal?
I doubt any union would accept less wages, but in the case of ATC, what can the union do about it? Not much. This workforce is largely right on the cusp of retirement anyway, the workload is reaching astronomical levels with minimal staffing in the busiest facilities, and the personnel are getting tired of six day weeks. Who needs the hassle? Privatization would result in an instant mass of retirements in the busy facilities, accompanied by the yearly parade of post-strike retirements that have already begun this year and will continue for the next 10 without abatement. In my center (ZTL) you would lose 30% of the workforce in the next 2 years, followed by 6-10% for every year after that, if any cuts in wages occurred, because as soon as people could bail out with a retirement, they’d be gone. We will be losing them anyway, but some are hanging on to raise their pension incomes by staying on to get their "high three" at today’s salary levels. I seriously doubt that any controllers would "accept" less wages to just remain federal. But again, I also doubt they’d have much of a choice. They’d do their time until retirement, and they’d quit ASAP. Even junior guys like me are within 12 years of retirement, and my replacement hasn’t even been hired yet. In today’s ATC management environment, he may not have even been born yet…. Chip, ZTL
Response:
ALPA. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If the feds privatize ATC, what will happen all those 6 figure salaries that the naive Ms. Garvey handed out in the last contract? What will happen to all those big, shiny, expensive pick-up trucks in the tower’s parking lot? Convince me that the union isn’t harping on safety when the issue seems to be fiscal. Would the union accept less wages if it meant that Rapcon could stay federal? What union has ever accepted less wages?
Response:
want to be convinced on? The question comes down to whether or not safety would be degraded under a privatization plan. I am not convinced one way or the other that it would be.
I had nothing specific. This came out of a discussion with an ops guy who felt that NATCA got a much better deal than his union was looking at. I appreciate your answer. It certainly helps fill me in on the other side of the story. Hope to see you in my jumpseat someday! D.
Response:
want to be convinced on? The question comes down to whether or not safety would be degraded under a privatization plan. I am not convinced one way or the other that it would be. I had nothing specific. This came out of a discussion with an ops guy who felt that NATCA got a much better deal than his union was looking at. I appreciate your answer. It certainly helps fill me in on the other side of the story. Hope to see you in my jumpseat someday!
Thanks D, me too! Heck, I hope to SEE a jumpseat again some day, LOL. The fam program is porked at the moment because of the current national security posture…. I agree that NATCA scored a coup, but we are only talking about a handful of federal employees (less than 15,000), and only a handful of that handful are making the big money (less than 4,000). I believe other federal unions are a bit peeved and more than a bit jealous. I’m not so sure that they have a right to be though. Chip, ZTL
Response:
Nothing. Controllers pay cash for big, shiny, expensive trucks and very few guys working in a tower are making 6 figures…
Better check your figures again. Lots of tower controllers are making six figures. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Convince me that the union isn’t harping on safety when the issue seems to be fiscal. Do you have a specific example you want to be convinced on? The question comes down to whether or not safety would be degraded under a privatization plan. I am not convinced one way or the other that it would be. My experience as a safety rep for the union has been that NATCA is far more concerned with safety than the FAA. The FAA is more concerned with image, liability and politics. That is why whenever something happens, the first words out of the FAA’s mouth is "Staffing is adequate, morale is high, and safety is never compromised…" Yeah, right. One thing I do know is that all of those overpaid, whining controllers are working a hell of a lot of airplanes with virtually no help these days. Here’s one for you: We are severely understaffed today. When I first arrived at ZTL over a decade ago, we were averaging 5000 operations a day. We operated with at least two controllers working a sector (R and D sides), we never combined ATC sectors between sunrise and sunset, we always had the staffing to provide a "Tracker" controller to a busy position so that a team of three ATCS could work busy pushes etc etc. In my area (had 6 sectors then), we had 68 controllers assigned to cover our 24 hours a day, 7 day a week operation.
Lots of other stuff snipped….. So why do you stay at the center? Everything you just said is exactly why I begged and pleaded to get a tower during placement at the Academy. I almost made a deal to go to the tower in East St. Louis, Illinois; the absolute shithole of the country, just to avoid being sent to Cleveland or Indy center. Ended up at GFK for four years instead. Privatization might at least bring about some regulation to squlech air traffic growth, either by socking it to airlines for over scheduling peak time slots or by killing off business and general aviation by overcharging them to death.
Privatization will not ever happen, except to the smaller towers. I seriously doubt that any controllers would "accept" less wages to just remain federal. But again, I also doubt they’d have much of a choice. They’d do their time until retirement, and they’d quit ASAP. Even junior guys like me are within 12 years of retirement, and my replacement hasn’t even been hired yet. In today’s ATC management environment, he may not have even been born yet….
I too have 12 years until I am eligible to retire but as for working conditions they are just the opposite as yours. All 17 of us cannot believe how much we make for as little position time that we work. The facility is overstaffed by two, nobody ever leaves because this is a garden spot. The phone rings off the hook with controllers wanting to pay their way here. And, the owners of the Bozeman airport have told the FAA they will buy and install a radar if the FAA will run the traffic for the NFCT. Ka-ching. Instant level 8, possibly level 9.
Response:
Thanks D, me too! Heck, I hope to SEE a jumpseat again some day, LOL. The fam program is porked at the moment because of the current national security posture….
No fams = no facility evals. Poor FAA. Fams were a pain in the ass anyway. I agree that NATCA scored a coup, but we are only talking about a handful of federal employees (less than 15,000), and only a handful of that handful are making the big money (less than 4,000).
What’s big money?
Response:
Nothing. Controllers pay cash for big, shiny, expensive trucks and very few guys working in a tower are making 6 figures… Better check your figures again. Lots of tower controllers are making six figures.
There are approx 10,000 tower ATCS in the system. How many of them make over 6 figures? Most are ATC-7’s, 8’s, 9’s and 10’s, aren’t they? Yall bagging 6 figures as 7’s? Man! Well then, I guess you pay cash for your toys like we do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Convince me that the union isn’t harping on safety when the issue seems to be fiscal. Do you have a specific example you want to be convinced on? The question comes down to whether or not safety would be degraded under a privatization plan. I am not convinced one way or the other that it would be. My experience as a safety rep for the union has been that NATCA is far more concerned with safety than the FAA. The FAA is more concerned with image, liability and politics. That is why whenever something happens, the first words out of the FAA’s mouth is "Staffing is adequate, morale is high, and safety is never compromised…" Yeah, right. One thing I do know is that all of those overpaid, whining controllers are working a hell of a lot of airplanes with virtually no help these days. Here’s one for you: We are severely understaffed today. When I first arrived at ZTL over a decade ago, we were averaging 5000 operations a day. We operated with at least two controllers working a sector (R and D sides), we never combined ATC sectors between sunrise and sunset, we always had the staffing to provide a "Tracker" controller to a busy position so that a team of three ATCS could work busy pushes etc etc. In my area (had 6 sectors then), we had 68 controllers assigned to cover our 24 hours a day, 7 day a week operation. Lots of other stuff snipped….. So why do you stay at the center? Everything you just said is exactly why I begged and pleaded to get a tower during placement at the Academy. I almost made a deal to go to the tower in East St. Louis, Illinois; the absolute shithole of the country, just to avoid being sent to Cleveland or Indy center. Ended up at GFK for four years instead.
I went to the Center because enroute was the kind of ATC I wanted to practise, plus my ego is so big I wanted to either play in the majors or not at all. It was at the tippy-top of the ATC payband too and the money was (still is) attractive. Plus, I wanted a security clearance and a place that I could work that probably would still be there after I put in my 25 years [IE-no moving]. At the time, FAA was still pushing ISSS/AAS and was broadcasting to one and all that the Tracons would be closed and consolidated with the Centers. That was 12 years ago. Last year, I made a lateral transfer to a level-12 Tracon. I was attempting to broaden my experience. I was picked up at the Tracon on an IPP, but the Center is so short staffed that I could not get a release date prior to the expiration of the IPP. ZTL- you can check out but you can never leave. Privatization might at least bring about some regulation to squlech air traffic growth, either by socking it to airlines for over scheduling peak time slots or by killing off business and general aviation by overcharging them to death. Privatization will not ever happen, except to the smaller towers.
I agree that the Centers won’t go private. However, I wouldn’t feel safe in any tower cab even if it has a radar room. Down here, they split two Level 2 terminal facilities into tower and tracon, then contracted the towers and consolidated the Tracons with Atlanta Approach. I smell more of this coming, and they wont stop with Level 2′.s Level 3’s are next IMO. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seriously doubt that any controllers would "accept" less wages to just remain federal. But again, I also doubt they’d have much of a choice. They’d do their time until retirement, and they’d quit ASAP. Even junior guys like me are within 12 years of retirement, and my replacement hasn’t even been hired yet. In today’s ATC management environment, he may not have even been born yet…. I too have 12 years until I am eligible to retire but as for working conditions they are just the opposite as yours. All 17 of us cannot believe how much we make for as little position time that we work. The facility is overstaffed by two, nobody ever leaves because this is a garden spot. The phone rings off the hook with controllers wanting to pay their way here. And, the owners of the Bozeman airport have told the FAA they will buy and install a radar if the FAA will run the traffic for the NFCT. Ka-ching. Instant level 8, possibly level 9.
Well, I’m jealous! My working conditions will continue to deteriorate for the next 6 years at least, even if FAA hired 100 new controllers just for ZTL. The real irony is that the FAA Southern Region is officially overstaffed by 3 controllers, hehehe. They’re mostly in tower garden spots too. We can’t move tower guys out of their garden spots without paying the move, and even if we could, who would get ordered to transfer? We have a lot of training failures here and if you wash out you can just return to the facility you came from. Who in their right mind wouldn’t take the payed move, pocket the money, wash out of the center and return home a little richer? Good luck with getting reclassed. I will say this though. Atlanta Approach has consistantly pushed over the CI count for ATC-13 ever since they consolidated Columbus GA and Macon GA with Atlanta into the A80 VLT. FAA and NATCA National have both tried to shoot holes in the traffic count in order to supress the promotion. The reason is that we are entering contract negotiations at the national level and the ATC-13 issue is a hot potato. For one thing, the reclass agreement basically reads that when one facility gets an upgrade, another must take a downgrade in order to free up the money. There is no money squirreled away in the annual FAA operating budget for facility reclassification upgrades.
Response:
Thanks D, me too! Heck, I hope to SEE a jumpseat again some day, LOL. The fam program is porked at the moment because of the current national security posture…. No fams = no facility evals. Poor FAA. Fams were a pain in the ass
anyway. I did a couple of national facility evals as the labor rep on the team, and those guys had a sweet boondoggle going. They’ve actually shut down the evaluation office. No eyes in the sky anymore either. I agree that NATCA scored a coup, but we are only talking about a handful of federal employees (less than 15,000), and only a handful of that handful are making the big money (less than 4,000). What’s big money?
ATC-12
Response:
Better check your figures again. Lots of tower controllers are making six figures. There are approx 10,000 tower ATCS in the system. How many of them make over 6 figures? Most are ATC-7’s, 8’s, 9’s and 10’s, aren’t they? Yall bagging 6 figures as 7’s? Man! Well then, I guess you pay cash for your toys like we do.
At least a third of our ATC-7’s are over $100K gross. I will be there shortly. I would imagine there are many more 8’s and 9’s. I went to the Center because enroute was the kind of ATC I wanted to practise, plus my ego is so big I wanted to either play in the majors or not at all. It was at the tippy-top of the ATC payband too and the money was (still is) attractive.
I looked at the centers and decided that wasn’t what I thought about when I thought about ATC. Not even the same job. Not sure what the cost of living is in Atlanta, but if it is anywhere near what MSP is like you need a hell of a lot more money just to break even. I would need at least $50K more per year to get the same standard of living in MSP as I get here in BIL. Plus, I wanted a security clearance
I got one of them, doesn’t everybody? and a place that I could work that probably would still be there after I put in my 25 years [IE-no moving]. At the time, FAA was still pushing ISSS/AAS and was broadcasting to one and all that the Tracons would be closed and consolidated with the Centers.
I remember looking at the sector suites at ZMP when I went for my interview in 1987. Another boondoggle. Privatization will not ever happen, except to the smaller towers. I agree that the Centers won’t go private. However, I wouldn’t feel safe in any tower cab even if it has a radar room. Down here, they split two Level 2 terminal facilities into tower and tracon, then contracted the towers and consolidated the Tracons with Atlanta Approach. I smell more of this coming, and they wont stop with Level 2′.s Level 3’s are next IMO.
In the big cities, maybe. Well, I’m jealous! My working conditions will continue to deteriorate for the next 6 years at least, even if FAA hired 100 new controllers just for ZTL. The real irony is that the FAA Southern Region is officially overstaffed by 3 controllers, hehehe.
When I moved here it was only going to be for a couple years to get radar. At the time I wanted to move to RSW. Same problem, Southern region is overstaffed. So I went and visited the manager at St. Thomas. All he could offer me was a permanent position, while all the others were on 3 year contracts. No thanks. Maybe when I want to retire I’ll go to an island. Then FXE called and the manager said she got approval to move in three IPP’s and I was first on the list. Too late, I had my 182 by then and realized how good the flying weather is here. They’re mostly in tower garden spots too. We can’t move tower guys out of their garden spots without paying the move, and even if we could, who would get ordered to transfer? We have a lot of training failures here and if you wash out you can just return to the facility you came from. Who in their right mind wouldn’t take the payed move, pocket the money, wash out of the center and return home a little richer? Good luck with getting reclassed.
We already got reclassed once. We were one of the 13 or so facilities that got screwed during the initial change to this pay system, and were involved in the lawsuit against Uncle Sam. A couple years ago we got what we should have had all along, as well as a fat back pay check, plus interest.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Better check your figures again. Lots of tower controllers are making six figures. There are approx 10,000 tower ATCS in the system. How many of them make over 6 figures? Most are ATC-7’s, 8’s, 9’s and 10’s, aren’t they? Yall bagging 6 figures as 7’s? Man! Well then, I guess you pay cash for your toys like we do. At least a third of our ATC-7’s are over $100K gross. I will be there shortly. I would imagine there are many more 8’s and 9’s.
Wow! No wonder the IG is bitching about salaries, hehehe… The highest payed CPC controller in the system last year made $187,000 gross, according the the IG. I don’t know where, but I imagine it was in New York where they are working 6 day weeks at ATC-12 pay. That’s a lot of overtime money. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I went to the Center because enroute was the kind of ATC I wanted to practise, plus my ego is so big I wanted to either play in the majors or not at all. It was at the tippy-top of the ATC payband too and the money was (still is) attractive. I looked at the centers and decided that wasn’t what I thought about when I thought about ATC. Not even the same job. Not sure what the cost of living is in Atlanta, but if it is anywhere near what MSP is like you need a hell of a lot more money just to break even. I would need at least $50K more per year to get the same standard of living in MSP as I get here in BIL.
I agree it isn’t the same job. I don’t think of towers when I think of ATC, I think of radar scopes. Cost of living in metro Atlanta and indeed the whole South is pretty low. I live in a rural county just 12 minutes south of ATL. I have cows in a pasture right behind my house, hawks in my trees, a creek in the front yard etc. Cost of living isn’t very high here IMO. I don’t know what MSP is like, or BIL either. Plus, I wanted a security clearance I got one of them, doesn’t everybody?
I don’t know. Apparently not down here. Many tower types don’t have them in ASO, because one of the hold ups in tranfers into ZTL from towers for some people is obtaining a security clearance. It may be in obtaining a clearance upgrade. I was told when I took an IPP to Atlanta Approach that I would lose a level on mine, which made no sense to me at all. and a place that I could work that probably would still be there after I put in my 25 years [IE-no moving]. At the time, FAA was still pushing ISSS/AAS and was broadcasting to one and all that the Tracons would be closed and consolidated with the Centers. I remember looking at the sector suites at ZMP when I went for my interview in 1987. Another boondoggle.
Yep, just like URET and probably STARS too. Privatization will not ever happen, except to the smaller towers. I agree that the Centers won’t go private. However, I wouldn’t feel safe in any tower cab even if it has a radar room. Down here, they split two Level 2 terminal facilities into tower and tracon, then contracted the towers and consolidated the Tracons with Atlanta Approach. I smell more of this coming, and they wont stop with Level 2′.s Level 3’s are next IMO. In the big cities, maybe.
Maybe. Of course, with ATC no longer being an inherintly governmental function, it follows that FAA could shed all of the towers completely. There are a lot of private ATC companies run by former administrators chomping at the bit to expand. Why could a Level 1 tower be safely run by a private company but a Level 5 couldn’t? [Not saying I agree with that argument, but there it is.] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I’m jealous! My working conditions will continue to deteriorate for the next 6 years at least, even if FAA hired 100 new controllers just for ZTL. The real irony is that the FAA Southern Region is officially overstaffed by 3 controllers, hehehe. When I moved here it was only going to be for a couple years to get radar. At the time I wanted to move to RSW. Same problem, Southern region is overstaffed. So I went and visited the manager at St. Thomas. All he could offer me was a permanent position, while all the others were on 3 year contracts. No thanks. Maybe when I want to retire I’ll go to an island. Then FXE called and the manager said she got approval to move in three IPP’s and I was first on the list. Too late, I had my 182 by then and realized how good the flying weather is here.
You’re in Montana, right? The flying weather out there is better than Florida? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They’re mostly in tower garden spots too. We can’t move tower guys out of their garden spots without paying the move, and even if we could, who would get ordered to transfer? We have a lot of training failures here and if you wash out you can just return to the facility you came from. Who in their right mind wouldn’t take the payed move, pocket the money, wash out of the center and return home a little richer? Good luck with getting reclassed. We already got reclassed once. We were one of the 13 or so facilities that got screwed during the initial change to this pay system, and were involved in the lawsuit against Uncle Sam. A couple years ago we got what we should have had all along, as well as a fat back pay check, plus interest.
Cool. Are yall hearing all of the rumblings out there about FAA taking away reclass next contract and putting us back in the GS system? Just what we need is a big pay cut to "improve" ATC! Chip, ZTL
Response:
Wow! No wonder the IG is bitching about salaries, hehehe… The highest payed CPC controller in the system last year made $187,000 gross, according the the IG. I don’t know where, but I imagine it was in New York where they are working 6 day weeks at ATC-12 pay. That’s a lot of overtime money.
It’s probably where ever the cost of living adjustment is greatest. Maybe. Of course, with ATC no longer being an inherintly governmental function, it follows that FAA could shed all of the towers completely.
There was such a backlash last week over what bush did they had to send mineta out to the wolves last weekend to backtrack. Now they claim it was only because the existing contract towers are doing a good job. not because they want to contract out the whole deal. There are a lot of private ATC companies run by former administrators chomping at the bit to expand. Why could a Level 1 tower be safely run by a private company but a Level 5 couldn’t?
I think it is liability. These companies are not held harmless by the government. They get sued and have to defend themselves. You’re in Montana, right? The flying weather out there is better than Florida?
Yes, for the type of flying I do. We have hardly any unflyable IFR days when the ceiling is too low to fly VFR. T-Storms don’t build in lines here, no such thing. It’s a lot less windy here also. We’ll get there eventually. I plan on living in either Florida or maybe the Bahamas after retirement. My folks live in Naples during the winters now. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They’re mostly in tower garden spots too. We can’t move tower guys out of their garden spots without paying the move, and even if we could, who would get ordered to transfer? We have a lot of training failures here and if you wash out you can just return to the facility you came from. Who in their right mind wouldn’t take the payed move, pocket the money, wash out of the center and return home a little richer? Good luck with getting reclassed. We already got reclassed once. We were one of the 13 or so facilities that got screwed during the initial change to this pay system, and were involved in the lawsuit against Uncle Sam. A couple years ago we got what we should have had all along, as well as a fat back pay check, plus interest. Cool. Are yall hearing all of the rumblings out there about FAA taking away reclass next contract and putting us back in the GS system? Just what we need is a big pay cut to "improve" ATC!
Haven’t heard that, but it’s like you said. Cut the pay and 40% of the people walk. Maybe then I could move up the senoirity list a little. I’m fourth from the bottom here, although luckily being overstaffed by two I still get the days off I want. And with using credit hours we all can pretty much work whatever days and hours we need, just make it add up to 40.
Response:
SEE a jumpseat again some day, LOL. The fam program is porked at the moment because of the current national security posture….
Our jumpseat policy states "An air traffic controller who is authorized by the administrator to observe ATC procedures". We don’t care if you are really do a fam flight. We just need the letter. If you want to sit in the back, most of us will accept your license and ID on a space available basis. Professional courtesy and all that… D.
Response:
SEE a jumpseat again some day, LOL. The fam program is porked at the moment because of the current national security posture…. Our jumpseat policy states "An air traffic controller who is authorized by the administrator to observe ATC procedures". We don’t care if you are really do a fam flight. We just need the letter. If you want to sit in the back, most of us will accept your license and ID on a space available basis. Professional courtesy and all that…
Yeah, but right now we aren’t allowed. Plus I’d rather sit in the front. Better view and better conversation.
Response:
Yes it happened at Sunbury airfield (Penfield) north of Melbourne. At that time the control airspace above Penfield was 2000ft and the ground was 1150ft. He conducted some form of maneuver (slow speed I think) which resulted in the Stratos going on its back and impacting the ground inverted. Too little air to recover in. I am absolutely sure he would have recovered the aircraft if he had started from a safe altitude above ground of say 3000ft. Remember all you guys out there that are testing aircraft. Nothing is more useless than the altitude above you. I have heard anecdotally that it was very sensitive in pitch. I have video of it at Mangalore back in the eighties and it didn’t look sensitive then. But that was Charles flying. I guess a ham fisted pilot could get into PIO. It was certainly very close coupled in pitch. Someone with Aeronautical design wisdom could actually tell me how it actually flew. I can’t. BG 