The Air That We Breathe…
Question:
I just finished looking at the oxygen systems in the Sporty’s Pilot Shop and Wag-Aero catalogues. Nowhere was there mention of FAA or TSO–makes me wonder if the FAA really gives a hoot about this!?
They don’t regulate portable equipment. A portable oxygen system falls in the same regulatory category as a Walkman CD player. George Patterson, N3162Q.
Response:
They ‘may’ not be ‘real happy’ with mine and ‘home made’ skydiving aircraft O2 systems, but I believe they do realize, that as far as O2 sources are concerned-one would have to be already ‘brain dead’ to not realize that there was a stoppage in a demand valve O2 source, or just a free flow hose put in your mouth!
Um, exactly? Not saying that this risk doesn’t exist with a properly certified system either, but all it takes is a distraction long enough for you to not notice your O2 has stopped flowing for you to actually no longer have enough mental capacity to understand what’s going on. Also-as far as the alternator belt comparison is concerned– I am not TSO’ed–the aircraft is!
Well, when you have your O2 system surgically implanted, then perhaps that would be relevant. (Though probably the FAA would still not recognize it as legal). Pete
Response:
I just finished looking at the oxygen systems in the Sporty’s Pilot Shop and Wag-Aero catalogues. Nowhere was there mention of FAA or TSO–makes me wonder if the FAA really gives a hoot about this!? Speaking of ‘many’ TSO’ed parts–Mr. Rogers is being given a tour of an automotive engine oil filter factory when they come to a point in the final production area where a ‘few’ of the filters were being diverted to a different conveyer. Mr. Rogers asks–why are those very few filters being diverted?-are they random quality control checks? The Production foreman responses–no, they are on their way to a different paint color, and a different printed description–which then makes them TSO’ed. What’s TSO’ed asks Mr. Rogers? The Production foreman responses–A TSO certification is for aircraft use–and it also means that the list price can be increased by several fold to help cover the ever-increasing legal defence expenses of the general aviation aircraft industry. Dave Brownell Mesa, AZ
Response:
The cost of ’so called’ aviation oxygen systems is a big joke, as are the systems. My self created O2 system—
Maybe I’m misremembering, but it seems to me that you aren’t allowed to use just any old oxygen system. You have to use one that meets specific certification requirements. Your "self created O2 system" is similar to using an automotive alternator belt on an aircraft. It may or may not meet the design requirements needed for safe flight, but regardless, the FAA would not be happy to find you using it. Someone correct me if I’m wrong (since when do you have to say that on the Usenet though 
) Pete
Response:
The cost of ’so called’ aviation oxygen systems is a big joke, as are the systems. My self created O2 system— Maybe I’m misremembering, but it seems to me that you aren’t allowed to use just any old oxygen system. You have to use one that meets specific certification requirements.
What about the system cited in my post that’s used in very many twin turboprop skydiving aircraft? It is nothing but a larger number of stations version of my lowest cost system, which the FAA has been very aware of for years in use, along with the hardware store copper pipe, brass automotive hose/barb fittings and cheap venal tubing/hoses. Your "self created O2 system" is similar to using an automotive alternator belt on an aircraft. It may or may not meet the design requirements needed for safe flight, but regardless, the FAA would not be happy to find you using it.
They ‘may’ not be ‘real happy’ with mine and ‘home made’ skydiving aircraft O2 systems, but I believe they do realize, that as far as O2 sources are concerned-one would have to be already ‘brain dead’ to not realize that there was a stoppage in a demand valve O2 source, or just a free flow hose put in your mouth! I’m sure they realize/know that a simple pressure reduction regulator connected to a hose, has an astronomically low failure rate! (other than just running out of O2) It’s the inherent nature of the ultra simple beast. Also-as far as the alternator belt comparison is concerned– I am not TSO’ed–the aircraft is! Dave Brownell C-180 Jump pilot/skydiver DB Technologies – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone correct me if I’m wrong (since when do you have to say that on the Usenet though ) Pete
Response:
I found the operation of the Aerox system to be pretty simple. Make sure you get a system that you can adjust each pax separately and use density altitude to determine what to set the O2 for. Also, you’ll find that the O2 will keep you awake better at night. I use mine anytime I’ll be over 10,000 ft during the day or 6,000 at night. I can REALLY feel 10,000 at night w/o the O2 (simply because I’m already more likely to be a bit tired than during the day). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At some point I am thinking of getting a personal pilot oxygen ’system’ on those days that it would be more pleasant to go over Donner Pass (and the like) at 12,500 instead of 10,500. Is additional formal training in its’ use advisable or will reading a good information manual/book suffice. Just wondering….. — Good Flights! Cecil E. Chapman PP-ASEL "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet." -Cecil Day Lewis- My personal adventures as a student and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
Response:
I have an Aerox system with cannulas and I found the documentation fine. There’s really not too much to it, other than knowing that you need oxygen at higher altitudes, and how to turn on the valve and hook up the cannulas. -Jon C. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At some point I am thinking of getting a personal pilot oxygen ’system’ on those days that it would be more pleasant to go over Donner Pass (and the like) at 12,500 instead of 10,500. Is additional formal training in its’ use advisable or will reading a good information manual/book suffice. Just wondering….. — Good Flights! Cecil E. Chapman PP-ASEL "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet." -Cecil Day Lewis- My personal adventures as a student and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
Response:
BTW: I called the Aerox guys after I bought by system to get some more details on how long my system will last (I bought the "E" model with 4 place). I spent 30 minutes talking to one of the guys who designed the system. There support is wonderful!!
Response:
I have a SkyOx system. I’ve used it to cross the Rockies twice. It’s pretty simple to operate. I don’t think you’d need to take any training to use it. Your private pilot training, plus the AIM, and knowledge of the physiological factors impacting flight at high altitudes should be sufficient. -Ryan http://www.fergworld.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At some point I am thinking of getting a personal pilot oxygen ’system’ on those days that it would be more pleasant to go over Donner Pass (and the like) at 12,500 instead of 10,500. Is additional formal training in its’ use advisable or will reading a good information manual/book suffice. Just wondering….. — Good Flights! Cecil E. Chapman PP-ASEL "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet." -Cecil Day Lewis- My personal adventures as a student and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
Response:
The cost of ’so called’ aviation oxygen systems is a big joke, as are the systems. My self created O2 system— About fifteen years ago, I put together a demand valve oxygen system for high altitude that works great. It uses a surplus medical regulator that puts out 50+ PSI over ambient pressure-from a high pressure oxygen source. A pre 1970’s single hose Scuba second stage (demand valve) is fed from this medical regulator’s 50+ PSI output port. The output of this regulator could feed many demand valves/mask’s. A demand valve system does not waste oxygen as a free flow system does, resulting in longer use times for said O2 amount. I made up exchangeable lengths of hose, with fittings, to connect between the medical regulator’s output, and the ‘demand valve/mouthpiece’ which complements different mission requirements. I installed surplus medical valves in two ICC high pressure cylinders that have a 1/2" pipe thread opening. One is an older steel Scuba tank rated at 2250 PSI, (70 CF) and the other is a 5 lb CO2 cylinder that holds about 11 CF of O2 at 1800 PSI. Both cylinders are painted green for O2 ID. These cylinders must be hydro-tested every five years, as per ICC regulations. The larger 70 CF Scuba cylinder can supply O2 ‘on demand’ for 140 minutes nominal at 19,000 feet MSL, and longer at higher altitudes. (because of demand valve) The smaller 11 CF cylinder has a sling/webbing that I can attach to my skydiving rig/harness for high altitude jumps, where I would open my main canopy at high altitude to do a cross country. Eleven CF of O2 will last 22 minutes nominal at 19,000 feet MSL, and longer at higher altitudes. (because of demand valve) Total cost for this great oxygen system–Classified Here’s an O2 system of lesser cost! (there is waste here, compared to a demand valve system) At the 50 PSI output port on the surplus medical regulator, connect a small ‘pin valve’ that you can adjust the flow rate with. At the output of this valve connect a length of Silicone hose. (maybe 4-6 feet) The other end of this hose is put in your mouth–adjust the valve for minimum O2 waste–that’s it–works great! This is what we do in twin engine turboprops-with many skydivers going to higher altitudes–22 O2 stations/hose ends in a Twin Otter! In this case there is a ’set flow rate’ fed to the main O2 manifolds from a large cylinder’s regulator/flow rate set valve. The flow rate is based/set on an average inhalation rate/amount at 10 K-MSL–again, works great. I made a skydive last week from 18K using this system–the O2 was great. No, I didn’t have to put it ‘in’ my mouth!! (not FDA approved)-maybe the pilot should hand out alcohol swabs! Yes–MISS–& of course, low $ Blue Skies, Be Safe, Dave Brownell C-180 jump pilot/skydiver (1203 jumps) DB Technologies Mesa, AZ
Response:
At some point I am thinking of getting a personal pilot oxygen ’system’ on those days that it would be more pleasant to go over Donner Pass (and the like) at 12,500 instead of 10,500. Is additional formal training in its’ use advisable or will reading a good information manual/book suffice. Just wondering….. — Good Flights! Cecil E. Chapman PP-ASEL "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet." -Cecil Day Lewis- My personal adventures as a student and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com
