CURSE OF THE KENNEDYS
Question:
Actually, most of the reporting I have seen _was_ quite accurate, and non-speculative (as opposed to most of the posts here), except for one almost predictable flub by a talking head – reporting a pilot saying "get-there-itis" as "get ‘air-itis’"
Last night I heard a reporter say that Kennedy’s flight was VFR although he was flying at night. So far so good. The voice then went on to say that this meant the pilot did not have the instruments a pilot normally uses when on an IFR flight. It’s possible the voice meant to say that Kennedy was not trained to fly IFR but I doubt it. I think he really thought the necessary instruments were actually not in the airplane because after all, the flight WAS VFR. Corky Scott
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I watched as much as I could before I got disgusted with inaccuracies. CBS seemed to be the worst, ABC was trying, but NBC, besides being the first to break the story, seemed to have the most accurate information. I thought it was fitting, that in their attempt to get breaking news without verification, ABC got nailed by a Howard Stern fan portraying a Coast Guard official, and live, the "official’s" first comment was "Did you know that Howard Stern really has a big d***"… Some of the information was so egregiously wrong you wonder why they didn’t at least call the closest airport and try to find a flight instructor or pilot to verify the crap they thrust onto the public as fact… Ok, I feel better now… Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com/?z The Internet’s Discussion Network The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
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Some of the information was so egregiously wrong you wonder why they didn’t at least call the closest airport and try to find a flight instructor or pilot to verify the crap they thrust onto the public as fact…
It may or may not have helped. Tom Brokaw talked to NBC’s Bob Arnot, who had flown that route (or in that vicinity, anyway) in his own airplane the night before. Much of what he had to say wasn’t especially accurate or helpful. Larry Fransson Seattle, WA "Pilots are just plane people with a different air about them."
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YOU FAGGOT YOU BELITTLE THE DEATH OF A DECENT MAN
Aren’t you belittling homosexuals by calling him a faggot? Not that I’m homosexual, you understand (But, I quickly add, a la Seinfeld, NOT THAT THERE’S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT!]
Response:
It appears he didn’t do anything illegal or careless, nor anything other less well known pilots have done. The moral is you can be legal but not safe. It CAN happen to you. Let the poor guy rest in peace. The big myth perpetrated by pilots is that the most dangerous part of flying is the drive to the airport, pure bunk!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are one who needs to show respect! Maybe little JJ was a decent man before the crash. But his careless approach (which involved two innocent people) to flying has given aviation a BAD name. Now many people will be out there assuming flying in small aircraft is dangerous. YOU FAGGOT YOU BELITTLE THE DEATH OF A DECENT MAN AND TWO BLAMELESS WOMEN. SHOW SOME RESPECT FOR THE DECEASED! Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com/?z The Internet’s Discussion Network The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
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(LONG SNIP) Some of the information was so egregiously wrong you wonder why they didn’t at least call the closest airport and try to find a flight instructor or pilot to verify the crap they thrust onto the public as fact… Ok, I feel better now…
To answer your post–because now news anchors not only report the news, they want to be part of it.
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To answer your post–because now news anchors not only report the news, they want to be part of it.
every news story i’ve seen where i know the first hand events have been grossly incorrect. when i was i the navy, when i was on the crew team at ohio state, as a pilot, etc. kind of scary. the media’s got a damned important job, and they don’t seem to take it all that seriously anymore.
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[.. inaccuracies in media reporting of aviation...] Three weeks ago a Velocity landing at Santa Monica went off the side of the runway, clipped a parked Cessna, then ended up along a hangar. No injuries – just a mangled airplane that looked worse than it was. TV reporter: "… it was the same type of plane that killed Elton John." The later edition still reported it was the "same type of plane…" but mentioned John Denver. I wrote to the station asking if I heard the first report correctly (and mentioned that the difference btwn the two acft), but haven’t heard back from ‘em. Barney
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree! Sure he may have been a great guy and all that, but his poor decision making skills cost him his life and the life of two innocent people. I think we all know that the following contriubted to the crash: - Poor visiblity - night - over the water - no visible horizon - no instrument rating (and obviously no unusual attitude recovery techniques were used) - Low time pilot - High performance airplane Tom – CFI Seattle.
At last, someone who has looked at the situation sensibly. Over here in England we get our news from the good old BBC. I’m pleased to say that their report didn’t jump to any conclusions, which left me to reach the same ones as you. If the BBC got the time of departure and estimated time of crash right, this sound like a ‘ran out of fuel whilst lost’ job. In which case you can add:- Failed to talk to someone when in difficulties to the list of JFKJ’s errors. Martin – PPL London.
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Since when did we start saying "God save the Kennedys", I mean Queen.
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Cattlovrr – Are you just a miserable jerk that has to criticize others that are better than you? You know, you’re not invincible, and someday you might end up on the bottom of the ocean, or on a highway somewhere as roadkill. I don’t think anyone wants to hear from you or any other poor excuses for human beings!!!
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Since the airplane hasn’t even been found yet, I’d suggest another career (other than accident investigation) for both of you.
I disagree. As pilots, we have the same rights as anyone to express an opinion based on our experience and intuition. That is what these boards are for, right? We all admit to speculating . . . nobody is putting a professional stamp on our opinions. Insurance benefits and court decisions will be unaffected by what we post here. It’s possible that he got bitten on the neck by a tarantula that crept into the cockpit in the middle of the night . . . but the scenarios presented are much more likely, aren’t they?
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Another pilot observed John Kennedy limping as he preflighted his plane. A reporter said that he had injured his foot several weeks before in a paragliding incident. I have flown a Saratoga HP II and it takes some decent leg and foot strength just to taxi the airplane. I cannot imagine taxiing it with an injured foot that was noticeable as a limping preflight. JFK bought the plane in April 99, and if he flew an hour per day in it, he still would have less than 100 hours in type and make. He previously owned a Cessna 182. He stated in an interview that no family member except his wife would fly with him. Low time or did they perceive any poor judgment in personality through other experiences? How much night time as PIC did he have? Night flight statistically is 30% more dangerous than day flight according to NTSB. How much MVFR time did he have? Hell, how much TT did he have? Flight Safety International is a wonderful school as I understand it, but totality of experience in all different phases of flight gained through total time is a much preferred learning mode. Every new pilot hears the maxim that his/her ticket is a license to go out and learn to fly. Just some random thoughts. Bigflyer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cattlovrr – Are you just a miserable jerk that has to criticize others that are better than you? You know, you’re not invincible, and someday you might end up on the bottom of the ocean, or on a highway somewhere as roadkill. I don’t think anyone wants to hear from you or any other poor excuses for human beings!!!
Response:
Actually, most of the reporting I have seen _was_ quite accurate, and non-speculative (as opposed to most of the posts here), except for one almost predictable flub by a talking head – reporting a pilot saying "get-there-itis" as "get ‘air-itis’" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are one who needs to show respect! Maybe little JJ was a decent man before the crash. But his careless approach (which involved two innocent people) to flying has given aviation a BAD name. Now many people will be out there assuming flying in small aircraft is dangerous. I agree! Sure he may have been a great guy and all that, but his poor decision making skills cost him his life and the life of two innocent people. I think we all know that the following contriubted to the crash: - Poor visiblity - night - over the water - no visible horizon - no instrument rating (and obviously no unusual attitude recovery techniques were used) - Low time pilot - High performance airplane
Nothing is "obvious". I can speculate as well as you, but other than positing scenarios that might help locate the aircraft, there is little useful purpose to your conjectures, especially with respect to your opinion on the possible quality of the possible decision made by the pilot. Perhaps it was spatial disorientation, perhaps not. This was a brand-new airplane, I believe, it could also possibly be an electrical or mechanical bug that came to the fore at this time (anybody involved in manufacturing knows about ‘infant mortality’). It sure looks like a case of a rich guy buying a very fancy and well equiped airplane thinking that if he can afford all the best equipment, he won’t get in trouble. It just seems that a high performace plane like a Saratoga would be quite a handfull for a novice pilot. I have 1,600+ hours and have never flown a Saratoga. If I had a chance to fly one, I would certainly do a bunch of dual with an instructor before taking it out on my own. I certainly wouldn’t attempt to fly one with less than 200 hours (I don’t know how many hours JFKJ had).
If you know how much dual JFKJr received in this airplane or how much IFR training he received, than say so, otherwise shut your pie-hole. Maybe *you* have never flown a Saratoga, but there are people who solo in them and even higher-performance a/c – perhaps he actually got his in a similar a/c. The thing that really pisses me off about this whole thing is the STUPID people who are reporting this. WHEN WILL REPORTERS GET A CLUE AND REPORT GENERAL AVIATION STUFF ACCURATELY!!!!!! If you don’t know the difference between a flight recorder and a transponder ASK, just don’t report incorrect information to the public.
On this I would generally agree with you, but this time the reporting has been at least several notches up from that displayed with John Denver. At least they are trying. The reporting I’ve seen on this actually clearly did explain what a CVR was, and why some airplanes have them and some don’t, and that it relates in no way to safety only to aiding us in locating a downed aircraft. One thing they uncharacteristically got *right* this time, was that VFR flight plans are *optional* when visibility is good enough to navigate by sight – which in this case it was, although made more difficult by night overwater flight. Which they (MSNBC and CNN) also reported quite accurately. This is all very sad, but could so easily be prevented, but it just keeps happening every year…….
Hard to say if it could be easily prevented, since we don’t know what happened yet. But whatever it was, yes, it happens every year. (Spatial disorientation, mechanical failure, electrical failure, VFR into IMC, etc). What’s your point? As to night-flying, I’ll fly single-engine night-time in some cases, but not overwater (I’m not IFR-rated). I will also not fly overwater (not in gliding distance of land), period, without survival gear and a liferaft. -john rourke
Response:
Face it, the bastard is toast.
Cattlovrr, Your post is very distasteful, not to mention downright mean. Keep these type of posts to yourself and quit wasting bandwidth. No one wants to read your crap. Steve
Response:
The great thing about the SAR system in the USA is that pretty much the same thing would occur, even if it was your sorry ass that was toast somewhere in the Atlantic.
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You are one who needs to show respect! Maybe little JJ was a decent man before the crash. But his careless approach (which involved two innocent people) to flying has given aviation a BAD name. Now many people will be out there assuming flying in small aircraft is dangerous.
I agree! Sure he may have been a great guy and all that, but his poor decision making skills cost him his life and the life of two innocent people. I think we all know that the following contriubted to the crash: – Poor visiblity – night – over the water – no visible horizon – no instrument rating (and obviously no unusual attitude recovery techniques were used) – Low time pilot – High performance airplane It sure looks like a case of a rich guy buying a very fancy and well equiped airplane thinking that if he can afford all the best equipment, he won’t get in trouble. It just seems that a high performace plane like a Saratoga would be quite a handfull for a novice pilot. I have 1,600+ hours and have never flown a Saratoga. If I had a chance to fly one, I would certainly do a bunch of dual with an instructor before taking it out on my own. I certainly wouldn’t attempt to fly one with less than 200 hours (I don’t know how many hours JFKJ had). The thing that really pisses me off about this whole thing is the STUPID people who are reporting this. WHEN WILL REPORTERS GET A CLUE AND REPORT GENERAL AVIATION STUFF ACCURATELY!!!!!! If you don’t know the difference between a flight recorder and a transponder ASK, just don’t report incorrect information to the public. This is all very sad, but could so easily be prevented, but it just keeps happening every year……. Tom – CFI Seattle.
Response:
YOU FAGGOT YOU BELITTLE THE DEATH OF A DECENT MAN AND TWO BLAMELESS WOMEN. SHOW SOME RESPECT FOR THE DECEASED! Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com/?z The Internet’s Discussion Network The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
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While I will refrain from the name-calling of Barnaby Jones, I must agree that it is absolutely indecent to make light of the death of these people. Whether you like John Jr. or his family, or not, they are human beings who presumably have suffered a terrible tragedy. I believe anyone deserves more respect than this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – YOU FAGGOT YOU BELITTLE THE DEATH OF A DECENT MAN AND TWO BLAMELESS WOMEN. SHOW SOME RESPECT FOR THE DECEASED! Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com/?z The Internet’s Discussion Network The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
You are one who needs to show respect! Maybe little JJ was a decent man before the crash. But his careless approach (which involved two innocent people) to flying has given aviation a BAD name. Now many people will be out there assuming flying in small aircraft is dangerous. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – YOU FAGGOT YOU BELITTLE THE DEATH OF A DECENT MAN AND TWO BLAMELESS WOMEN. SHOW SOME RESPECT FOR THE DECEASED! Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com/?z The Internet’s Discussion Network The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
Face it, the bastard is toast. John F. Kennedy, Jr., is finally going to get that (unplanned) burial at sea that alluded both John F. and Robert Kennedy. John-John, his marrying-into-money wife Carolyn Bessette and her sister Lauren went out for a drink and ended up plunging into the drink. Their plane was the cocktail onion to the Long Island Sound
