Cessna 152
Question:
Where can I find some general information about the Cessna 152 ? Thanks, Frank
Response:
Where can I find some general information about the Cessna 152 ?
Hi Frank, try this URL: http://www.av8r.net/issues/may96/cessna.htm It’s actually about the 150, but they are very similar. Stefan
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Try the Cessna 150/152 Club http://www.cessna150-152club.com/ Mike Dillon Cessna 152 N69212 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where can I find some general information about the Cessna 152 ? Thanks, Frank
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www.cessna150-152club.com Mike in Miami – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where can I find some general information about the Cessna 152 ? Thanks, Frank
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We all go through the "dang, I want to buy an airplane" phase while getting our PPL. But buying a C152 is like marrying the first girl you kiss. It seems like a good idea at the time. Get your PPL and try a few other models of aircraft. Figure out what kind of flying you like to do before you buy. If you buy a 152, odds are you’ll outgrow it quickly. Also, don’t make the assumption that you save money by owning. As a rule of thumb, you must fly about 200 hours a year to make owning more cost effective than renting. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m taking my PPL and trying to locate a decent/depedable 152 to purchase rather than keep renting.
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: Also, don’t make the assumption that you save money by owning. As a rule of : thumb, you must fly about 200 hours a year to make owning more cost : effective than renting. That seems a bit high to me. Trouble with "rules of thumb" is that nothing in aviation makes any sense. If you’re the kind of guy who doesn’t like to or have time to work on it, then annuals can be very expensive. If you find a good mechanic who’ll work with you, it doesn’t have to be that much. Biggest trouble is finding a mechanic that knows what he’s doing, and isn’t a, "Let’s replace that and see if it fixes the problem." These are probably reasonable numbers for the biggest things, (assuming you can buy it outright. If you have you finance, add that in too): Insurance: $1200 for student pilot in C-152 Annual: $500-$3000 for the first year or two… depends on how much is broken, and how much work you do yourself. Tiedown: $30-$75/mo ($360-$900)/yr. Depends on where you are. Hangars can be more Fuel: 6 gal/hr … $8-20 gal/hr depending on 100LL or cargas, etc. Those add to between $2000-$5000/yr, depending on how you go, and how lucky you are on parts, etc. Divided by 100 hrs/yr (still quite a bit of flying), that’s $20-$50/hr indirect costs. Add the $8-$20 for fuel, and on the low end it’s cheaper than renting, and on the high end it’s the same. At least around here you can rent a 152 for $65/hr. Obviously, for a 152, the indirect costs are disproportionately more expensive than the direct operating costs. Yet another reason for a bit more plane. Step up to a Cherokee 140, and the only thing that goes up is the initial price by $5-10k, and fuel from 6 gal/hr to 6-9 gal/hr (depending on how you’re flying it). Hope that helps -Cory — * The prime directive of Linux: * * – learn what you don’t know, * * – teach what you do. * * (Just my 20 USm$) *
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: Also, don’t make the assumption that you save money by owning. As a rule of : thumb, you must fly about 200 hours a year to make owning more cost : effective than renting. That seems a bit high to me. Trouble with "rules of thumb" is that nothing in aviation makes any sense.
Well, I would agree with you that rules of thumb are not always correct. Granted, the C152 is easier to operate cheaply than most airplanes. You make a good point: by helping with annuals, running mogas, and keeping it tied down instead of hangared, you can get the breakeven cost of ownership down. Self-insuring the hull would help too. But … you’re basing all your cost estimates on "best case". You don’t consider the opportunity cost of money, and you don’t run a rebuild fund. Also, don’t discount the possibility of major maintenance problems or minor accidents. That’s the thing about ownership. There is the hidden cost of "risk". If an expensive problem happens, there’s nobody to absorb the cost but you. Don’t get me wrong. Owning is great on many levels. But if saving $$ is your only criteria, think twice and look at the worst case as well as the best case. Run some spreadsheets and vary the estimates to see what it does to your hourly cost. That 200 hour rule of thumb was made up by guys with a lot more experience than me. If it flies, floats, or flirts, rent it.
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Plane ownership is the way to go. It’s ready to go when you are. It’s calling you to go flying. You know the thing is in proper repair. However, you will NEVER be able to financially justify buying over renting. Don’t even try. Here’s a little unsolicited advice from somebody who has owned planes for the last 20 years (C-150, Cherokee 140, C-model Bonanza, another C-150, Musketeer)… When it comes to fixed gear, fixed prop metal airplanes, maintenance will cost you about the same whether it’s 2-seat or 4-seat. Insurance and gasoline will be more on the 4-seat, but repairs will be the same as a 2-seat. So you might want to consider widening your search a bit when looking for a plane. Also, if you like C-152, consider that you will likely get more plane for the money with a C-150 or a Piper Tomahawk. Having said that, don’t let anybody tell you that you won’t like owning a C-152. If that’s what you want, then go for it! Yes, you may get tired of it in a few years. So what if you do? You will be able to sell it for probably more than you bought it (as long as it’s well-maintained.) Then you can buy whatever else stikes your fancy. Best regards, Steve Robertson N4732J 1967 Beechcraft A23-24 Musketeer Super III – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Also, don’t make the assumption that you save money by owning. As a rule of : thumb, you must fly about 200 hours a year to make owning more cost : effective than renting. That seems a bit high to me. Trouble with "rules of thumb" is that nothing in aviation makes any sense. Well, I would agree with you that rules of thumb are not always correct. Granted, the C152 is easier to operate cheaply than most airplanes. You make a good point: by helping with annuals, running mogas, and keeping it tied down instead of hangared, you can get the breakeven cost of ownership down. Self-insuring the hull would help too. But … you’re basing all your cost estimates on "best case". You don’t consider the opportunity cost of money, and you don’t run a rebuild fund. Also, don’t discount the possibility of major maintenance problems or minor accidents. That’s the thing about ownership. There is the hidden cost of "risk". If an expensive problem happens, there’s nobody to absorb the cost but you. Don’t get me wrong. Owning is great on many levels. But if saving $$ is your only criteria, think twice and look at the worst case as well as the best case. Run some spreadsheets and vary the estimates to see what it does to your hourly cost. That 200 hour rule of thumb was made up by guys with a lot more experience than me. If it flies, floats, or flirts, rent it.
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: If you can find a C175 with a solid airframe, there are some : attractive options which allow you to basically get a C182 equiv : performance for a C172 price… : I’d Examine the 220 Franklin and the 180 Lyc conversions, in that : order. : C175s are horribly undervalued in todays marketplace, and I’d hunt for : one with a runout engine and crappy paint. : (You always need a hot paintjob to go with a hot engine) True… I looked into C-175’s before. The GO-300 is too weird for words (read: expensive and cantankerous). An O-360 conversion would make for a really great plane. Trouble is if they’ve been converted, they’re priced much higher, and if they haven’t it’s quite expensive to upgrade. If you can find one, however, they *are* undervalued for the amount of airplane you get -Cory — * The prime directive of Linux: * * – learn what you don’t know, * * – teach what you do. * * (Just my 20 USm$) *
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("G.R. Patterson III" wrote) Yeah, but you’re the keeper as far as she’s concerned.
Yeah, until she decides to trade up again ….. <g (That should keep our boy Ron on his best behavior for a little while longer) — Montblack
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Two seems a rather skimpy sample, but then I suppose you wouldn’t really want her to renew the sampling… 
Well, that’s two *husbands*. That doesn’t count the guys she thought weren’t worth keeping. George Patterson If you’re not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging the problem.
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Two seems a rather skimpy sample, but then I suppose you wouldn’t really
want her to renew the sampling… Well, that’s two *husbands*. That doesn’t count the guys she thought weren’t worth keeping. George Patterson
George, you are definitely the "master of the analogy" :~)
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Two seems a rather skimpy sample, but then I suppose you wouldn’t really want her to renew the sampling… Well, that’s two *husbands*. That doesn’t count the guys she thought weren’t worth keeping.
Some are more trouble than others.
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Some are more trouble than others.
Yeah, but you’re the keeper as far as she’s concerned. George Patterson If you’re not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging the problem.
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Margy’s line is that if it has tires or testicles, it’s going to be trouble.
Which begs the question: does she really have enough exerience with either group to be able to make so broad a generalization? :-) Russell Kent
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Margy’s line is that if it has tires or testicles, it’s going to be trouble. Which begs the question: does she really have enough exerience with either group to be able to make so broad a generalization? :-)
Well, she’s had a whole slew of cars, a motorscooter, two husbands and one airplane.
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Margy’s line is that if it has tires or testicles, it’s going to be trouble. Which begs the question: does she really have enough exerience with either group to be able to make so broad a generalization? :-) Well, she’s had a whole slew of cars, a motorscooter, two husbands and one airplane.
Two seems a rather skimpy sample, but then I suppose you wouldn’t really want her to renew the sampling… Russell Kent
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He could buy me another airplane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Margy’s line is that if it has tires or testicles, it’s going to be trouble. Which begs the question: does she really have enough exerience with either group to be able to make so broad a generalization? :-) Well, she’s had a whole slew of cars, a motorscooter, two husbands and one airplane. Two seems a rather skimpy sample, but then I suppose you wouldn’t really want her to renew the sampling… Russell Kent
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If it flies, floats, or flirts, rent it.
Margy’s line is that if it has tires or testicles, it’s going to be trouble.
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It’s hard to beat the mind set that goes with knowing who landed the plane last time, and that no one has flown it in the last two weeks that I coundn’t get out. I think that the breakeven number of hours is more like 75 or 100 when this intangable is taken into account.
Couldn’t agree more. That’s why I recently bought into a Decathlon partnership with another guy. Didn’t like wondering if the renter before me had pulled 8G’s. And I wanted the plane to be mine whenever I needed it, not when the FBO could squeeze me in. But before I did so, I did a hard cost effectiveness analysis with no consideration for "intangibles". That way I went into it with my eyes open, without any delusions of "saving money by owning." Besides, everyone’s intangibles are different, and the value we put on them is subjective. To you, the most important thing may be comfort with the maintenance history of your bird. To someone else, the most important thing may be low hassle convenience, the ability to just hop in and fly it. A third guy might get his jollies from only flying aircraft that he built himself. We’re all different, so there’s no sense trying to build that into a cost comparison method. Better to do the math, then decide whether the cost is worth it to you.
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if it flies, floats, or flirts, rent it.
Seeing the problem with this advice came from my mother many years ago. "Don’t pick that up, you don’t know where it’s been." It’s hard to beat the mind set that goes with knowing who landed the plane last time, and that no one has flown it in the last two weeks that I coundn’t get out. I think that the breakeven number of hours is more like 75 or 100 when this intangable is taken into account. Chuck
Response:
I’m taking my PPL and trying to locate a decent/depedable 152 to purchase rather than keep renting.Also how many hours on the TTAF time is too many before problems arise. It seems most flight schools are selling around 9k-10k hours? Any 152 sellers out there? Thanks Jay Nashville TN *** Sent via http://www.automationtools.com *** Add a newsgroup interface to your website today.
What’s your bracketed expense range you can afford to pay, Jay? A Cessna 150 or 152 is really of limited value other than for weekend jaunts and local flights/training. If you have any fattys or bigguns in your family, you’ll be disappointed in its performance in the summertime and likely be flying close to gross all the time. If the airplane is really just for yourself and the ocassional passenger, the C152 is a good deal. It’s a horrible one if you want to carry any non-pilot types more than 100 miles. If you can find a C175 with a solid airframe, there are some attractive options which allow you to basically get a C182 equiv performance for a C172 price… I’d Examine the 220 Franklin and the 180 Lyc conversions, in that order. C175s are horribly undervalued in todays marketplace, and I’d hunt for one with a runout engine and crappy paint. (You always need a hot paintjob to go with a hot engine) Check out some examples: http://www.geocities.com/greatpunkin170b/ http://www.eaa1000.av.org/progsumm/feb96/franklin.htm http://franklinengines.com/cessna.cfm http://www.hangar9aeroworks.com/108TweedieF-220.html http://www.taildraggers.com/PersonalWebPage.aspx?jeff http://www.taildraggers.com/old/airplanes/Cessna170/jmfr220.html http://franklinengines.com/ I was researching this for awhile, but came across a Bonanza for a steal so I never chased this dream. I kinda wish I would have though because the Bonanza is a blood sucking slug living inside my wallet.
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: But … you’re basing all your cost estimates on "best case". You don’t : consider the opportunity cost of money, and you don’t run a rebuild fund. : Also, don’t discount the possibility of major maintenance problems or minor : accidents. That’s what I was trying to get at with the wide variations of things like annuals, etc. If you do a good prebuy, there shouldn’t be that much that’s *really* expensive on a 152. Even a new jug or top overhaul is less than $2k if you do the work. I did intend to put in an engine overhaul fund, but forgot. If you buy a runout, you can sell a runout, though. Also many shades of grey on an "overhaul" and what it costs. : That’s the thing about ownership. There is the hidden cost of "risk". If : an expensive problem happens, there’s nobody to absorb the cost but you. Very true. Along with the risk goes risk and financial management, though. There are *huge* shades of grey on what’s considered airworthy. If you want to run your plane really cheaply, you can do so… just have to shop around for a mechanic and/or get your hands dirty. Things really only get out of control when you either do something stupid (so the insurance should cover it), or have a mechanic that is too anal (so find another mechanic). -Cory — * The prime directive of Linux: * * – learn what you don’t know, * * – teach what you do. * * (Just my 20 USm$) *
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1. Join AOPA and learn about their escrow purchase agreement and title services for airplane purchasers. Aircraft do not have titles, they have "bill of sale" that records legal ownership trail. 2. Subscribe to Trade a Plane. Ads are online also www.tradeaplane.com 3. Find a potential aircraft, the closer the better in TAP or elsewhere. 4. Call the owner, get the information on the plane, if the price seems right (there is a appraiser in TAP online that gives asking price in TAP, usually the actual price will be a little lower), call a mechanic at the airport where the plane is and tell him you will need him to do a compression test and spend an hour looking at the logbooks. Don’t get into a "prebuy", just two hours to look the plane and books over. 5. Fly (rent) or drive to the airport, meet the owner, make sure he IS the owner, (get a xerox of his drivers license), and look at the registration of the plane. Check all the paint, seats, interior, lights, radios and appearance of the plane. 6. Go for a flight with the owner or an instructor and see if the gyros, radios, and everything else works. Check to see the plane flies straight, and flies well, and everything works (or if it doesn’t note it). Call ATC and see if the transponder is working (get flight following). Most radios or gyros either work, or they don’t work. Note anything that doesn’t work. 7. If all is OK so far, take the plane to the mechanic, have him do a compresson test and cut open the oil filter and look at the logbooks. If it fails to have goood compression in ALL cylinders, then you have an engine rebuild to look at. Unless you want a project, skip this plane and keep looking. Any damage history not properly repaired would probably disqualify the plane. Old planes aren’t perfect, and if you want perfect, you will have to pay for it. Yes there are pristine airplanes out there, but not 30 year old pristine ones. But the plane should be airworthy with an engine making good compressions, no misrepaired damage, and you should know if anything doesn’t work. 8. If all is ok, call AOPA and do a title search on the plane. Find out if there are any liens (loan related) on the plane. 9. If you insist on a prebuy or an annual, this is probably the place to do it. 10. If all is still ok, negotiate an agreed on price, fill out the purchase agreement making sure you address dates of delivery, method of delivery, and everything else you can think of. Send the deposit to AOPA escrow services, NOT to the owner. 11. Call AOPA and Avemco and other insurance companies and get insurance quote. 12. Take delivery of the plane, instruct AOPA to wire the deposit to the owner, wire the balance to the owner, call your insurance agent and activate your insurance. 13. If you are not checked out in this type of aircraft, or even if you are, your best insurance is to get a qualified instructor to fly with you. Make sure you are legally qualified and competent in the plane before you solo. Don’t let the excitement of a new plane get in the way of safe, competent pilot technique. The first few hours in your new plane are high risk. Take some precautions to keep things safe. Get some instruction, even if it’s only an hour or two. 14. Fly the plane and enjoy!
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Don’t buy a 150!!! Get something a little larger, faster and carries more people. The 150 is only a trainer and doesn’t have much functionality. Just my $0.02 worth. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1. Join AOPA and learn about their escrow purchase agreement and title services for airplane purchasers. Aircraft do not have titles, they have "bill of sale" that records legal ownership trail. 2. Subscribe to Trade a Plane. Ads are online also www.tradeaplane.com 3. Find a potential aircraft, the closer the better in TAP or elsewhere. 4. Call the owner, get the information on the plane, if the price seems right (there is a appraiser in TAP online that gives asking price in TAP, usually the actual price will be a little lower), call a mechanic at the airport where the plane is and tell him you will need him to do a compression test and spend an hour looking at the logbooks. Don’t get into a "prebuy", just two hours to look the plane and books over. 5. Fly (rent) or drive to the airport, meet the owner, make sure he IS the owner, (get a xerox of his drivers license), and look at the registration of the plane. Check all the paint, seats, interior, lights, radios and appearance of the plane. 6. Go for a flight with the owner or an instructor and see if the gyros, radios, and everything else works. Check to see the plane flies straight, and flies well, and everything works (or if it doesn’t note it). Call ATC and see if the transponder is working (get flight following). Most radios or gyros either work, or they don’t work. Note anything that doesn’t work. 7. If all is OK so far, take the plane to the mechanic, have him do a compresson test and cut open the oil filter and look at the logbooks. If it fails to have goood compression in ALL cylinders, then you have an engine rebuild to look at. Unless you want a project, skip this plane and keep looking. Any damage history not properly repaired would probably disqualify the plane. Old planes aren’t perfect, and if you want perfect, you will have to pay for it. Yes there are pristine airplanes out there, but not 30 year old pristine ones. But the plane should be airworthy with an engine making good compressions, no misrepaired damage, and you should know if anything doesn’t work. 8. If all is ok, call AOPA and do a title search on the plane. Find out if there are any liens (loan related) on the plane. 9. If you insist on a prebuy or an annual, this is probably the place to do it. 10. If all is still ok, negotiate an agreed on price, fill out the purchase agreement making sure you address dates of delivery, method of delivery, and everything else you can think of. Send the deposit to AOPA escrow services, NOT to the owner. 11. Call AOPA and Avemco and other insurance companies and get insurance quote. 12. Take delivery of the plane, instruct AOPA to wire the deposit to the owner, wire the balance to the owner, call your insurance agent and activate your insurance. 13. If you are not checked out in this type of aircraft, or even if you are, your best insurance is to get a qualified instructor to fly with you. Make sure you are legally qualified and competent in the plane before you solo. Don’t let the excitement of a new plane get in the way of safe, competent pilot technique. The first few hours in your new plane are high risk. Take some precautions to keep things safe. Get some instruction, even if it’s only an hour or two. 14. Fly the plane and enjoy!
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: I’m taking my PPL and trying to locate a : decent/depedable 152 to purchase rather than : keep renting. I understand the desire to buy a plane for instruction. I didn’t do that, and ended up spending a fair bit more money on my license than I needed. A Cessna-152 or 150 makes a great trainer and is probably what you are used to flying, but you should consider what you plan on using it for when you finish your license. If you’re like me, you think you’ll be happy with something to bop around the pattern…. which gets boring surprisingly quickly. I was (fortunately) swayed into buying a Cherokee instead. It’s just as cheap to maintain (fixed gear/prop, common engine/airframe), negligibly more expensive to operate (you don’t have to fly at 75%, you know), and can be had for slightly more than a Cessna 152. If you can do cargas, a Cessna-150 or Cherokee-140 runs great on it for cheap. When you’re done with your license, you can pack two people in it with baggage and fuel, or three with less and go somewhere. The Cessnas seem to carry a bit more market value for a roughly equivalent airplane. They all fly the same, however. Hope that helps a bit… just what worked out for me and a few of my pilot buddies. -Cory — * The prime directive of Linux: * * – learn what you don’t know, * * – teach what you do. * * (Just my 20 USm$) *
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I’m taking my PPL and trying to locate a decent/depedable 152 to purchase rather than keep renting.Also how many hours on the TTAF time is too many before problems arise. It seems most flight schools are selling around 9k-10k hours? Any 152 sellers out there? Thanks Jay Nashville TN *** Sent via http://www.automationtools.com *** Add a newsgroup interface to your website today.
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I’m taking my PPL and trying to locate a decent/depedable 152 to purchase rather than keep renting.
Try Vicky of Vermont. She’s high, but has a good rep. Also get "plugged in" to the community at your local airport. The best deals don’t get advertised much (if at all). Hang around the airport and listen to hangar tales a bit. Let people know you’re looking. I would probably be flying a Bonanza now if I had done that when I got my PPC. Also how many hours on the TTAF time is too many before problems arise.
You can keep one of these planes going about forever, but you will find that other people will be reluctant to buy a plane with more than about 6,000 hours on it. That means that it may take you a while to sell it when the time comes. Keep an eye on the ads for these high-time school planes you’re looking at and see how long it takes them to get rid of it. Sooner or later, you’ll be in the same boat. It seems most flight schools are selling around 9k-10k hours?
I would avoid one being sold by a flight school unless it has a mid-time engine and has required little engine work during the last run. Schools usually keep a spare engine so they can do a fast engine swap when they hit TBO. If they decide to sell the plane at TBO and have a lemon engine, that’s the one that’ll wind up in your plane. You can expect to put a few thousand into a school plane for cosmetic stuff, and the avionics will probably be functional antiques, but the prices are usually discounted accordingly. George Patterson If you’re not part of the solution, you can make a lot of money prolonging the problem.
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