Belfort sues former employees, SuperAWOS finds new markets

Question:

Mikey is hiding tonight.  He is probably down working the glory hole right now!  You know you cannot keep a gay man away from his environment for too long!  He’s servicing his clients and making a little stipend on the side from his regular paycheck from Belfort.

How is your butt buddy, Gary Burnore, doing? Does he visit you at the Belfort bar when you are working the glory hole, fag boi? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And YOUR mouth is probably full of GLORY HOLE patrons at the belfort bar!  Do YOU ever wonder who is on the other side of that GLORY HOLE Mikey?  Or, knowing YOU, YOU could probably care less, RIGHT!   Thought so! I second that emotion!  Sounds like much is going on with this particular company!  I’m sorry, I can’t seem to get the money out of my wallet … not even just a little! Its probably because its so fully stuffed with your socks, gay boi. Wow, see, we learn more about Belfort time after time!  What the "HELL" is going on at this company! The only reason they would sue former employees, is to shut them up! They must have something to hide!  It is obvious!  Plus, it makes this comapny which looks bad, look much worse!  If they handeld their matters properly, they would not need to sue a former employee!  What did they do!  What were they trying to hide!  Usually, courts see through the clutter and definitely scrutinize the intentions of companies like Belfort!  Hell, turn on the television at night!  All kinds of things going on in the corporate world!  Usually, the employees have a legitimate gripe which is never addressed!  If it was addressed, their wouldn’t be a problem! these types of employers are just a bunch of fu**ing a**holes!  Suing employees!!!  A better term would be a bunch of pu**ies!!!  Their activities are mean spirited, bullying tactics, spineless, and are obvious! DO NOT SUPPORT THESE COMPANIES IN YOUR PURCHASING DECISIONS! Maybe Belfort Instrument Company can find some more former employees to sue while SuperAWOS finds new markets and customers to sell too. Sounds like a well executed business plan by Belfort owners Bruce R. Robinson, Nicholas C. Kaufman and Mark W. Decker. These three stooges need to get together and write a book about "How NOT to market DigiWx AWOS?" By the way, have any DigiWx AWOS been FAA commissioned? Has even one DigiWx AWOS been Approved by the FAA to transmit official weather information to aviation pilots? I BET NO! Meanwhile, SuperAWOS is pulling customers out of the woodwork. Look at these bona-fide SuperAWOS installations versus Belfort’s list of "demo" DigiWx AWOS field units! https://potomacaviation.com/select.asp At least these weather systems are installed at airports versus sewage plants where you can find at least one DigiWx system! 1  Default  AA OLD 2  Defualt-SL40  AA SL40 3  FoleyMunc  AL 5R4 4  29Palms  CA KTNP 5  AppleValley  CA KAPV 6  Fallbrook  CA L18 7  Redlands  CA KL12 8  YuccaValleyAirport  CA L22 9  FortMorgan  CO 3V4 10  GlenwoodSprg  CO GWS 11  Meadowlake  CO 00V 12  RangeLee  CO 4V0 13  SALIDA-HARRIET- ALEX  CO 0V2 14  Milton  FL 2R4 15  Sebastian  FL X26 16  Valkeria  FL KX59 17  Copley  MA CIC 18  FitchburgAirport  MA FIT 19  ProductResources  MA PROD 20  David-Stack  MD STK 21  PotomacAirfield  MD KVKX 22  PotomacAirfieldTest  MD VKX 23  LaurelMunicipal  MT K6S8 24  MaltaAirport  MT KM75 25  ScobeyAirport  MT K9S2 26  Goldsboro  NC GWW 27  AlexandriaField  NJ N85 28  BaderAirfield  NJ AIY 29  Blairstown  NJ 1N7 30  GreenwoodLake  NJ 4N1 31  Hammonton  NJ N81 32  Old Bridge  NJ 3N6 33  Princeton  NJ 39N 34  RedLion  NJ N73 35  Woodbine  NJ 1N4 36  DoubleEagleII  NM AEG 37  Boulder  NV 61B 38  Buffalo-Lancaster  NY D77 39  OrangeCounty  NY MGJ 40  Lockhaven  PA LHV 41  Cleveland  TN HDI 42  ReelFoot  TN 0M2 43  Duchesne  UT U69 44  Newport  VT EFK 45  Arlington  WA AWO 46  Auburn  WA S50 47  Blaine  WA 4W6 48  LAKE-CHELAN  WA S10 49  PierceCty-Thun  WA 1SO 50  PortTownsend  WA 0S9 Don’t you just love, Don’t you love it, don’t you love it. OOOOh yeah, don’t you love it!

Response:

I think Mikey works the Belfort bar glory hole full time now since it appears that Belfort fired him.  It has happened before!  then, they try to SILENCE there former employees by either trying to sue them or manipulate them with even lower handed tactics!  What a company! Anyone looking for a job? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mikey is hiding tonight.  He is probably down working the glory hole right now!  You know you cannot keep a gay man away from his environment for too long!  He’s servicing his clients and making a little stipend on the side from his regular paycheck from Belfort. And YOUR mouth is probably full of GLORY HOLE patrons at the belfort bar!  Do YOU ever wonder who is on the other side of that GLORY HOLE Mikey?  Or, knowing YOU, YOU could probably care less, RIGHT!   Thought so! I second that emotion!  Sounds like much is going on with this particular company!  I’m sorry, I can’t seem to get the money out of my wallet … not even just a little! Its probably because its so fully stuffed with your socks, gay boi. Wow, see, we learn more about Belfort time after time!  What the "HELL" is going on at this company! The only reason they would sue former employees, is to shut them up! They must have something to hide!  It is obvious!  Plus, it makes this comapny which looks bad, look much worse!  If they handeld their matters properly, they would not need to sue a former employee!  What did they do!  What were they trying to hide!  Usually, courts see through the clutter and definitely scrutinize the intentions of companies like Belfort!  Hell, turn on the television at night!  All kinds of things going on in the corporate world!  Usually, the employees have a legitimate gripe which is never addressed!  If it was addressed, their wouldn’t be a problem! these types of employers are just a bunch of fu**ing a**holes!  Suing employees!!!  A better term would be a bunch of pu**ies!!!  Their activities are mean spirited, bullying tactics, spineless, and are obvious! DO NOT SUPPORT THESE COMPANIES IN YOUR PURCHASING DECISIONS! Maybe Belfort Instrument Company can find some more former employees to sue while SuperAWOS finds new markets and customers to sell too. Sounds like a well executed business plan by Belfort owners Bruce R. Robinson, Nicholas C. Kaufman and Mark W. Decker. These three stooges need to get together and write a book about "How NOT to market DigiWx AWOS?" By the way, have any DigiWx AWOS been FAA commissioned? Has even one DigiWx AWOS been Approved by the FAA to transmit official weather information to aviation pilots? I BET NO! Meanwhile, SuperAWOS is pulling customers out of the woodwork. Look at these bona-fide SuperAWOS installations versus Belfort’s list of "demo" DigiWx AWOS field units! https://potomacaviation.com/select.asp At least these weather systems are installed at airports versus sewage plants where you can find at least one DigiWx system! 1  Default  AA OLD 2  Defualt-SL40  AA SL40 3  FoleyMunc  AL 5R4 4  29Palms  CA KTNP 5  AppleValley  CA KAPV 6  Fallbrook  CA L18 7  Redlands  CA KL12 8  YuccaValleyAirport  CA L22 9  FortMorgan  CO 3V4 10  GlenwoodSprg  CO GWS 11  Meadowlake  CO 00V 12  RangeLee  CO 4V0 13  SALIDA-HARRIET- ALEX  CO 0V2 14  Milton  FL 2R4 15  Sebastian  FL X26 16  Valkeria  FL KX59 17  Copley  MA CIC 18  FitchburgAirport  MA FIT 19  ProductResources  MA PROD 20  David-Stack  MD STK 21  PotomacAirfield  MD KVKX 22  PotomacAirfieldTest  MD VKX 23  LaurelMunicipal  MT K6S8 24  MaltaAirport  MT KM75 25  ScobeyAirport  MT K9S2 26  Goldsboro  NC GWW 27  AlexandriaField  NJ N85 28  BaderAirfield  NJ AIY 29  Blairstown  NJ 1N7 30  GreenwoodLake  NJ 4N1 31  Hammonton  NJ N81 32  Old Bridge  NJ 3N6 33  Princeton  NJ 39N 34  RedLion  NJ N73 35  Woodbine  NJ 1N4 36  DoubleEagleII  NM AEG 37  Boulder  NV 61B 38  Buffalo-Lancaster  NY D77 39  OrangeCounty  NY MGJ 40  Lockhaven  PA LHV 41  Cleveland  TN HDI 42  ReelFoot  TN 0M2 43  Duchesne  UT U69 44  Newport  VT EFK 45  Arlington  WA AWO 46  Auburn  WA S50 47  Blaine  WA 4W6 48  LAKE-CHELAN  WA S10 49  PierceCty-Thun  WA 1SO 50  PortTownsend  WA 0S9 Don’t you just love, Don’t you love it, don’t you love it. OOOOh yeah, don’t you love it!

Response:

Mikey is hiding tonight.  He is probably down working the glory hole right now!  You know you cannot keep a gay man away from his environment for too long!  He’s servicing his clients and making a little stipend on the side from his regular paycheck from Belfort. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And YOUR mouth is probably full of GLORY HOLE patrons at the belfort bar!  Do YOU ever wonder who is on the other side of that GLORY HOLE Mikey?  Or, knowing YOU, YOU could probably care less, RIGHT!   Thought so! I second that emotion!  Sounds like much is going on with this particular company!  I’m sorry, I can’t seem to get the money out of my wallet … not even just a little! Its probably because its so fully stuffed with your socks, gay boi. Wow, see, we learn more about Belfort time after time!  What the "HELL" is going on at this company! The only reason they would sue former employees, is to shut them up! They must have something to hide!  It is obvious!  Plus, it makes this comapny which looks bad, look much worse!  If they handeld their matters properly, they would not need to sue a former employee!  What did they do!  What were they trying to hide!  Usually, courts see through the clutter and definitely scrutinize the intentions of companies like Belfort!  Hell, turn on the television at night!  All kinds of things going on in the corporate world!  Usually, the employees have a legitimate gripe which is never addressed!  If it was addressed, their wouldn’t be a problem! these types of employers are just a bunch of fu**ing a**holes!  Suing employees!!!  A better term would be a bunch of pu**ies!!!  Their activities are mean spirited, bullying tactics, spineless, and are obvious! DO NOT SUPPORT THESE COMPANIES IN YOUR PURCHASING DECISIONS! Maybe Belfort Instrument Company can find some more former employees to sue while SuperAWOS finds new markets and customers to sell too. Sounds like a well executed business plan by Belfort owners Bruce R. Robinson, Nicholas C. Kaufman and Mark W. Decker. These three stooges need to get together and write a book about "How NOT to market DigiWx AWOS?" By the way, have any DigiWx AWOS been FAA commissioned? Has even one DigiWx AWOS been Approved by the FAA to transmit official weather information to aviation pilots? I BET NO! Meanwhile, SuperAWOS is pulling customers out of the woodwork. Look at these bona-fide SuperAWOS installations versus Belfort’s list of "demo" DigiWx AWOS field units! https://potomacaviation.com/select.asp At least these weather systems are installed at airports versus sewage plants where you can find at least one DigiWx system! 1  Default  AA OLD 2  Defualt-SL40  AA SL40 3  FoleyMunc  AL 5R4 4  29Palms  CA KTNP 5  AppleValley  CA KAPV 6  Fallbrook  CA L18 7  Redlands  CA KL12 8  YuccaValleyAirport  CA L22 9  FortMorgan  CO 3V4 10  GlenwoodSprg  CO GWS 11  Meadowlake  CO 00V 12  RangeLee  CO 4V0 13  SALIDA-HARRIET- ALEX  CO 0V2 14  Milton  FL 2R4 15  Sebastian  FL X26 16  Valkeria  FL KX59 17  Copley  MA CIC 18  FitchburgAirport  MA FIT 19  ProductResources  MA PROD 20  David-Stack  MD STK 21  PotomacAirfield  MD KVKX 22  PotomacAirfieldTest  MD VKX 23  LaurelMunicipal  MT K6S8 24  MaltaAirport  MT KM75 25  ScobeyAirport  MT K9S2 26  Goldsboro  NC GWW 27  AlexandriaField  NJ N85 28  BaderAirfield  NJ AIY 29  Blairstown  NJ 1N7 30  GreenwoodLake  NJ 4N1 31  Hammonton  NJ N81 32  Old Bridge  NJ 3N6 33  Princeton  NJ 39N 34  RedLion  NJ N73 35  Woodbine  NJ 1N4 36  DoubleEagleII  NM AEG 37  Boulder  NV 61B 38  Buffalo-Lancaster  NY D77 39  OrangeCounty  NY MGJ 40  Lockhaven  PA LHV 41  Cleveland  TN HDI 42  ReelFoot  TN 0M2 43  Duchesne  UT U69 44  Newport  VT EFK 45  Arlington  WA AWO 46  Auburn  WA S50 47  Blaine  WA 4W6 48  LAKE-CHELAN  WA S10 49  PierceCty-Thun  WA 1SO 50  PortTownsend  WA 0S9 Don’t you just love, Don’t you love it, don’t you love it. OOOOh yeah, don’t you love it!

Response:

And YOUR mouth is probably full of GLORY HOLE patrons at the belfort bar!  Do YOU ever wonder who is on the other side of that GLORY HOLE Mikey?  Or, knowing YOU, YOU could probably care less, RIGHT!   Thought so! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I second that emotion!  Sounds like much is going on with this particular company!  I’m sorry, I can’t seem to get the money out of my wallet … not even just a little! Its probably because its so fully stuffed with your socks, gay boi. Wow, see, we learn more about Belfort time after time!  What the "HELL" is going on at this company! The only reason they would sue former employees, is to shut them up! They must have something to hide!  It is obvious!  Plus, it makes this comapny which looks bad, look much worse!  If they handeld their matters properly, they would not need to sue a former employee!  What did they do!  What were they trying to hide!  Usually, courts see through the clutter and definitely scrutinize the intentions of companies like Belfort!  Hell, turn on the television at night!  All kinds of things going on in the corporate world!  Usually, the employees have a legitimate gripe which is never addressed!  If it was addressed, their wouldn’t be a problem! these types of employers are just a bunch of fu**ing a**holes!  Suing employees!!!  A better term would be a bunch of pu**ies!!!  Their activities are mean spirited, bullying tactics, spineless, and are obvious! DO NOT SUPPORT THESE COMPANIES IN YOUR PURCHASING DECISIONS! Maybe Belfort Instrument Company can find some more former employees to sue while SuperAWOS finds new markets and customers to sell too. Sounds like a well executed business plan by Belfort owners Bruce R. Robinson, Nicholas C. Kaufman and Mark W. Decker. These three stooges need to get together and write a book about "How NOT to market DigiWx AWOS?" By the way, have any DigiWx AWOS been FAA commissioned? Has even one DigiWx AWOS been Approved by the FAA to transmit official weather information to aviation pilots? I BET NO! Meanwhile, SuperAWOS is pulling customers out of the woodwork. Look at these bona-fide SuperAWOS installations versus Belfort’s list of "demo" DigiWx AWOS field units! https://potomacaviation.com/select.asp At least these weather systems are installed at airports versus sewage plants where you can find at least one DigiWx system! 1  Default  AA OLD 2  Defualt-SL40  AA SL40 3  FoleyMunc  AL 5R4 4  29Palms  CA KTNP 5  AppleValley  CA KAPV 6  Fallbrook  CA L18 7  Redlands  CA KL12 8  YuccaValleyAirport  CA L22 9  FortMorgan  CO 3V4 10  GlenwoodSprg  CO GWS 11  Meadowlake  CO 00V 12  RangeLee  CO 4V0 13  SALIDA-HARRIET- ALEX  CO 0V2 14  Milton  FL 2R4 15  Sebastian  FL X26 16  Valkeria  FL KX59 17  Copley  MA CIC 18  FitchburgAirport  MA FIT 19  ProductResources  MA PROD 20  David-Stack  MD STK 21  PotomacAirfield  MD KVKX 22  PotomacAirfieldTest  MD VKX 23  LaurelMunicipal  MT K6S8 24  MaltaAirport  MT KM75 25  ScobeyAirport  MT K9S2 26  Goldsboro  NC GWW 27  AlexandriaField  NJ N85 28  BaderAirfield  NJ AIY 29  Blairstown  NJ 1N7 30  GreenwoodLake  NJ 4N1 31  Hammonton  NJ N81 32  Old Bridge  NJ 3N6 33  Princeton  NJ 39N 34  RedLion  NJ N73 35  Woodbine  NJ 1N4 36  DoubleEagleII  NM AEG 37  Boulder  NV 61B 38  Buffalo-Lancaster  NY D77 39  OrangeCounty  NY MGJ 40  Lockhaven  PA LHV 41  Cleveland  TN HDI 42  ReelFoot  TN 0M2 43  Duchesne  UT U69 44  Newport  VT EFK 45  Arlington  WA AWO 46  Auburn  WA S50 47  Blaine  WA 4W6 48  LAKE-CHELAN  WA S10 49  PierceCty-Thun  WA 1SO 50  PortTownsend  WA 0S9 Don’t you just love, Don’t you love it, don’t you love it. OOOOh yeah, don’t you love it!

Response:

India OKs Private Airlines Overseas Flights

Question:

The British there (and other places) have developed a reputation that is inconsistent with Branson’s choice of corporate appellation. What reputation is that then?

It was a simple throwaway joke, I think you know exactly what I mean, and I can’t imagine this discussion is achieving anything for anyone. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 32 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

I’d advise you to hold off and revisit this thread after you’ve been to Bondi. Do you mean Bondi Beach in Sydney, NWS, AU?

The one and only! News reports held that the police cracked down on beach drinking this Christmas, but my spies on the scene report that nothing of the sort actually happened – it was business as usual. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 32 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

I’d advise you to hold off and revisit this thread after you’ve been to Bondi. Do you mean Bondi Beach in Sydney, NWS, AU? The one and only! News reports held that the police cracked down on beach drinking this Christmas, but my spies on the scene report that nothing of the sort actually happened – it was business as usual.

Where on earth is "NWS"? New Wales South?! ant

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why in the world would an INDIAN airline name themselves SAHARA AIR? What ever does India have to do with the Sahara desert? Sahara is a large Indian conglomerate, not just an airline (not unlike Virgin – why in the world would a BRITISH company name themselves that?). "Sahara" is the generic Arabic word for desert, for whatever that’s worth. Why wouldn’t a British company call itself Virgin? You can’t fool me; I’ve been to Bondi. What on earth does that mean? I’d advise you to hold off and revisit this thread after you’ve been to Bondi.

Do you mean Bondi Beach in Sydney, NWS, AU? dennis

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why in the world would an INDIAN airline name themselves SAHARA AIR? What ever does India have to do with the Sahara desert? Sahara is a large Indian conglomerate, not just an airline (not unlike Virgin – why in the world would a BRITISH company name themselves that?). "Sahara" is the generic Arabic word for desert, for whatever that’s worth. Why wouldn’t a British company call itself Virgin? You can’t fool me; I’ve been to Bondi. What on earth does that mean? I’d advise you to hold off and revisit this thread after you’ve been to Bondi. As it is unlikely that I’ll be going to Bondi (the Australian one, yes?) in the foreseeable future perhaps you would care to enlighten me now. The British there (and other places) have developed a reputation that is inconsistent with Branson’s choice of corporate appellation. miguel

What reputation is that then?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why in the world would an INDIAN airline name themselves SAHARA AIR? What ever does India have to do with the Sahara desert? Sahara is a large Indian conglomerate, not just an airline (not unlike Virgin – why in the world would a BRITISH company name themselves that?). "Sahara" is the generic Arabic word for desert, for whatever that’s worth. Why wouldn’t a British company call itself Virgin? You can’t fool me; I’ve been to Bondi. miguel

What on earth does that mean?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why in the world would an INDIAN airline name themselves SAHARA AIR? What ever does India have to do with the Sahara desert? Sahara is a large Indian conglomerate, not just an airline (not unlike Virgin – why in the world would a BRITISH company name themselves that?). "Sahara" is the generic Arabic word for desert, for whatever that’s worth. Why wouldn’t a British company call itself Virgin? You can’t fool me; I’ve been to Bondi. What on earth does that mean?

I’d advise you to hold off and revisit this thread after you’ve been to Bondi. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 32 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why in the world would an INDIAN airline name themselves SAHARA AIR? What ever does India have to do with the Sahara desert? Sahara is a large Indian conglomerate, not just an airline (not unlike Virgin – why in the world would a BRITISH company name themselves that?). "Sahara" is the generic Arabic word for desert, for whatever that’s worth. Why wouldn’t a British company call itself Virgin? You can’t fool me; I’ve been to Bondi. What on earth does that mean? I’d advise you to hold off and revisit this thread after you’ve been to Bondi. miguel

As it is unlikely that I’ll be going to Bondi (the Australian one, yes?) in the foreseeable future perhaps you would care to enlighten me now.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why in the world would an INDIAN airline name themselves SAHARA AIR? What ever does India have to do with the Sahara desert? Sahara is a large Indian conglomerate, not just an airline (not unlike Virgin – why in the world would a BRITISH company name themselves that?). "Sahara" is the generic Arabic word for desert, for whatever that’s worth. Why wouldn’t a British company call itself Virgin? You can’t fool me; I’ve been to Bondi. What on earth does that mean? I’d advise you to hold off and revisit this thread after you’ve been to Bondi. As it is unlikely that I’ll be going to Bondi (the Australian one, yes?) in the foreseeable future perhaps you would care to enlighten me now.

The British there (and other places) have developed a reputation that is inconsistent with Branson’s choice of corporate appellation. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 32 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

Why in the world would an INDIAN airline name themselves SAHARA AIR? What ever does India have to do with the Sahara desert? Sahara is a large Indian conglomerate, not just an airline (not unlike Virgin – why in the world would a BRITISH company name themselves that?). "Sahara" is the generic Arabic word for desert, for whatever that’s worth. miguel

Why wouldn’t a British company call itself Virgin? Andy

Response:

Why in the world would an INDIAN airline name themselves SAHARA AIR? What ever does India have to do with the Sahara desert? Sahara is a large Indian conglomerate, not just an airline (not unlike Virgin – why in the world would a BRITISH company name themselves that?). "Sahara" is the generic Arabic word for desert, for whatever that’s worth. Why wouldn’t a British company call itself Virgin?

You can’t fool me; I’ve been to Bondi. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 32 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

India OKs Private Airlines Overseas Flights Associated Press NEW DELHI – India on Wednesday agreed to allow two private airlines to fly to most overseas destinations, ending the decades-old monopoly of state-owned Air-India and Indian Airlines. Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel said, however, that Jet Airways and Sahara Air would not be allowed to begin services on the lucrative routes to Gulf states – where millions of Indian expatriates work – for another three years. The government didn’t announce when the airlines will be allowed to fly to other international destinations. "The guidelines will be issued later," Dow Jones Newswires quoted the minister as saying. Earlier this year, the government allowed the private airlines to fly to two neighboring countries, Nepal and Sri Lanka. In June, Pakistan refused permission to Jet Airways and Sahara Air to launch commercial flights to Pakistan. Newspaper reports said Pakistan preferred to increase the frequency of existing flights by state-run carriers Indian Airlines and Pakistan International Airlines between the two countries. Sopurce: http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/business/10521913.htm

Response:

Why in the world would an INDIAN airline name themselves SAHARA AIR? What ever does India have to do with the Sahara desert?     –o–  –o–  –o–  –o–  –o–  

Response:

Why in the world would an INDIAN airline name themselves SAHARA AIR? What ever does India have to do with the Sahara desert?

Sahara is a large Indian conglomerate, not just an airline (not unlike Virgin – why in the world would a BRITISH company name themselves that?). "Sahara" is the generic Arabic word for desert, for whatever that’s worth. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 32 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

How Many Pilots in the World?

Question:

(Jesus – anyone so arrogantly pig-ignorant and lazy HAS to be a Yank) Nah, the accent in the writing was definitely Aussie or maybe Brit, sometimes hard to tell the different. Brits are not named Brad

Yeah, but if he was ‘merican, he wouldn’t *care* about the rest of the world, would he? FWIW, both his apparent email and USENET domains are from the US…. Ron Wanttaja

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Jesus – anyone so arrogantly pig-ignorant and lazy HAS to be a Yank) Nah, the accent in the writing was definitely Aussie or maybe Brit, sometimes hard to tell the different. Brits are not named Brad Yeah, but if he was ‘merican, he wouldn’t *care* about the rest of the world, would he?

Broad smile …. Well, rather a very broad grin …. KA

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have came up with a new product for aviation, and I am trying to do my research. I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world. I have heard from the FAA how many in America, but what about others? Please send reply to my email address, because I don’t monitor all these websites. Riiiight. You want to try to sell stuff but are too damn lazy to "monitor all these websites." You loser – you have not posted to a  single solitary   website.  (But 6 ngs) "I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world" 127, ok? Happy now?

Actually 128 if you count Jay! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Jesus – anyone so arrogantly pig-ignorant and lazy HAS to be a Yank)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have came up with a new product for aviation, and I am trying to do my research. I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world. I have heard from the FAA how many in America, but what about others? Please send reply to my email address, because I don’t monitor all these websites. Riiiight. You want to try to sell stuff but are too damn lazy to "monitor all these websites." You loser – you have not posted to a  single solitary   website.  (But 6 ngs) "I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world" 127, ok? Happy now? Actually 128 if you count Jay!

Oh bugger!   I hate being wrong

Response:

I have a database, which I will gladly sell you, for all these pilots. Please send ME a private email, as I am too important to monitor web sites. Dude. PS I would never put my email on a NG, and you are going to find out why soon…

Oh bullshit, I have been posting my email address for over 12 years without a problem. Maybe you are just to lazy to figure out how to stop spam etc. Jerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have came up with a new product for aviation, and I am trying to do my research. I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world. I have heard from the FAA how many in America, but what about others? Please send reply to my email address, because I don’t monitor all these websites.

Response:

I would like to take the time to say FUCK all you smartasses!!!! This is not a pilot forum, it sounds like a 7th grade gym class of wanna be’s and people that have no business replying to anything remotely intelligent. I usually monitor this one because I am a licensed pilot and an engineer. This last thread totally lost all respect I had for the people who responded to a simple question with smartass remarks and negativity.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a database, which I will gladly sell you, for all these pilots. Please send ME a private email, as I am too important to monitor web sites. Dude. PS I would never put my email on a NG, and you are going to find out why soon… Oh bullshit, I have been posting my email address for over 12 years without a problem. Maybe you are just to lazy to figure out how to stop spam etc. Jerry I have came up with a new product for aviation, and I am trying to do my research. I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world. I have heard from the FAA how many in America, but what about others? Please send reply to my email address, because I don’t monitor all these websites.

Response:

I would like to take the time to say FUCK all you smartasses!!!! This is not a pilot forum, it sounds like a 7th grade gym class of wanna be’s and people that have no business replying to anything remotely intelligent. I usually monitor this one because I am a licensed pilot and an engineer. This last thread totally lost all respect I had for the people who responded to a simple question with smartass remarks and negativity.

It is too bad that all you can do is monitor this newsgroup but the only thing you contribute is more of the same thing that you are complaining about.  The group is a reflection of the world, not some perfect little private group.  If you want to make it better, make your contributions better.  Lurkers, who only contribute to complain about others and in your case with profanity, are not of a concern to anybody.  There will always be those who respond with smart remarks and negativity, I even got pissed at one myself, but I don’t slam the whole group for it.   Understand that this group is something akin to a grouup of pilots standing around in a hangar having a discussion.  They don’t always discuss airplanes but may varry from politics to anything that comes to mind.  There will be the smartass who always has an off the wall comment and there will be the contributors who will give you good straight reliable answers.  Learn the difference and when you have a real question, direct it to them.  Just like the hangar, you will have to filter some noise out but you will get the answer. Bob Reed www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com      (KIS Builders Site) KIS Cruiser in progress…Slow but steady progress…. "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!" (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)    

Response:

I would like to take the time to say FUCK all you smartasses!!!! This is not a pilot forum, it sounds like a 7th grade gym class of wanna be’s and people that have no business replying to anything remotely intelligent. I usually monitor this one because I am a licensed pilot and an engineer. This last thread totally lost all respect I had for the people who responded to a simple question with smartass remarks and negativity.

Perhaps if you would have taken a little more time, and written a post that makes you sound like more than a 7th grader with a hair up his as*, you would have had better luck. I have  =came=  up with a new product for aviation,

Strike 1.  and I am trying to do  =my=  research. Strike 2.  I need to know how many  =licensed=  pilots are there in the world. Strike 3. I have heard from the FAA  =(about?)=  how many =(are?)= in America, but

what about others?  =(others what?)= Strike 4. Please send reply to my email address, because I don’t monitor all these

websites. Strike 5.  (attitude) Also, this is not a website, but a newsgroup, on Usenet. You might want to think about giving out your e-mail address, when it belongs to a company, that might not want you solicitating using their corporation domain. It might have gotten a few more people on you side, to tell us a bit about your idea. So, as I see it, you got about what you deserved.  I fell confident that many people that let you slide the first time, will now have a word or two to say, now that you so kindly told them to F*CK OFF! — Jim in NC

Response:

Oh bullshit, I have been posting my email address for over 12 years without a problem. Maybe you are just to lazy to figure out how to stop spam etc. Jerry

I now have a SPAM blocker.  At any rate, that is only the most obvious of the problems. My favorite is the frivolous lawsuits from people who are aggravated about your reasonable opinion on the value of their aircraft (from the blue book), or the safety of their design, or the other opinions about anything they think is sacrosanct. IMO a reasonable amount of anonymity is necessary for a free discourse in our present legal environment.  Too bad, eh?

Response:

Who are you guys talking to?  He says he doesn’t monitor this "website".

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have came up with a new product for aviation, and I am trying to do my research. I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world. I have heard from the FAA how many in America, but what about others? Please send reply to my email address, because I don’t monitor all these websites. Riiiight. You want to try to sell stuff but are too damn lazy to "monitor all these websites." You loser – you have not posted to a  single solitary   website.  (But 6 ngs) "I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world" 127, ok? Happy now? Actually 128 if you count Jay! Oh bugger!   I hate being wrong

Response:

Just ignore em… there’s alot of inbreeding going on in the "old country".

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who are you guys talking to?  He says he doesn’t monitor this "website".

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is too bad that all you can do is monitor this newsgroup but the only thing you contribute is more of the same thing that you are complaining about. The group is a reflection of the world, not some perfect little private group.  If you want to make it better, make your contributions better.  Lurkers, who only contribute to complain about others and in your case with profanity, are not of a concern to anybody.  There will always be those who respond with smart remarks and negativity, I even got pissed at one myself, but I don’t slam the whole group for it. Understand that this group is something akin to a grouup of pilots standing around in a hangar having a discussion.  They don’t always discuss airplanes but may varry from politics to anything that comes to mind.  There will be the smartass who always has an off the wall comment and there will be the contributors who will give you good straight reliable answers.  Learn the difference and when you have a real question, direct it to them.  Just like the hangar, you will have to filter some noise out but you will get the answer. Bob Reed

Amen!

Response:

I would like to take the time to say FUCK all you smartasses!!!! This is not a pilot forum, it sounds like a 7th grade gym class of wanna be’s and people that have no business replying to anything remotely intelligent. I usually monitor this one because I am a licensed pilot and an engineer. This last thread totally lost all respect I had for the people who responded to a simple question with smartass remarks and negativity.

Seriously, did you READ your own post?  Perhaps you should relax and laugh with us.

Response:

I have a database, which I will gladly sell you, for all these pilots. Please send ME a private email, as I am too important to monitor web sites. Dude. PS I would never put my email on a NG, and you are going to find out why soon…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have came up with a new product for aviation, and I am trying to do my research. I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world. I have heard from the FAA how many in America, but what about others? Please send reply to my email address, because I don’t monitor all these websites.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have came up with a new product for aviation, and I am trying to do my research. I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world. I have heard from the FAA how many in America, but what about others? Please send reply to my email address, because I don’t monitor all these websites. Riiiight. You want to try to sell stuff but are too damn lazy to "monitor all these websites." You loser – you have not posted to a  single solitary   website.  (But 6 ngs) "I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world" 127, ok?  Happy now? (Jesus – anyone so arrogantly pig-ignorant and lazy HAS to be a Yank) Nah, the accent in the writing was definitely Aussie or maybe Brit, sometimes hard to tell the different.

Brits are not named Brad

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have came up with a new product for aviation, and I am trying to do my research. I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world. I have heard from the FAA how many in America, but what about others? Please send reply to my email address, because I don’t monitor all these websites. Riiiight. You want to try to sell stuff but are too damn lazy to "monitor all these websites." You loser – you have not posted to a  single solitary   website.  (But 6 ngs) "I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world" 127, ok?  Happy now? (Jesus – anyone so arrogantly pig-ignorant and lazy HAS to be a Yank)

Nah, the accent in the writing was definitely Aussie or maybe Brit, sometimes hard to tell the different. Matt

Response:

I have came up with a new product for aviation, and I am trying to do my research. I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world. I have heard from the FAA how many in America, but what about others? Please send reply to my email address, because I don’t monitor all these websites.

Response:

I have came up with a new product for aviation, and I am trying to do my research. I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world. I have heard from the FAA how many in America, but what about others? Please send reply to my email address, because I don’t monitor all these websites.

Riiiight. You want to try to sell stuff but are too damn lazy to "monitor all these websites." You loser – you have not posted to a  single solitary   website.  (But 6 ngs) "I need to know how many licensed pilots are there in the world" 127, ok?  Happy now? (Jesus – anyone so arrogantly pig-ignorant and lazy HAS to be a Yank)

Response:

VIDEO: F/A-18 catches a deck wire with its wingtip during a carrier landing

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I cannot see the video, but it sounds just like an incident I saw. I was onboard the USS Nimitz in 1991 (about?), when during night flight ops, a F-18 from VFA-147 was attempting to land. His AOA probe was damaged by the basket during in-flight refueling, which resulted in him being in an IFR situation with no "I", if you know what I mean. They tried to wave him off at the last second, but he actually landed short, on what we called the "round down". The round down is perhaps 6 feet wide, runs port to starboard at the aft end of the flight deck, and is tilted away from the flight deck at about a 30 degree angle. Aft of the round down is open space. His landing gear mains, or at least his starboard main gear, hit the round down. Either way, his starboard main gear completely collapsed. He jammed the throttles into AB, in case he missed the wire, and as he was progressing towards the bow, he noticed that he was no longer on a heading to take him safely off the angle, he was headed for a stack of parked aircraft. So punched out. The aircraft had taken the one wire, as it turns out, and came to rest on the port main landing gear, the starboard wingtip, and the engine exhaust nozzles. The bird was still in full afterburner, and it took the crash and smash crew guys to climb up in the cockpit and pull the fuel shutoff handles to shut them down. AFFF straight down the intakes had little or no effect. The AB plume boiled the non-skid off of the flight deck.

This is when the smash & crash gang earns thrir keep This scared the shit out of a lot of people, including yours truly, not to mention the pilot. He landed on the flight deck in the Fly3 area and was tackled by a yellowshirt before his chute carried him off the fantail. He was alright and was flying again within a week, and continued to do so for the remainder of the deployment (WestPac). Charles Crain AME2 ex-USN VF-24 (CAG9, CVN-68) 1987-1992

Ralph Nesbitt Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type

Response:

Everybody knows how difficult it must be to land on a carrier deck. The three greatest things in life are: 1.  A good adrenalin rush. 2.  A good bowel movement. 3.  A good orgasm. A night carrier landing is an opportunity to experience all three.

If mom walks in on you while you’re working on the last two, you’ll get the first as a freebie.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Everybody knows how difficult it must be to land on a carrier deck. The three greatest things in life are: 1.  A good adrenalin rush. 2.  A good bowel movement. 3.  A good orgasm. A night carrier landing is an opportunity to experience all three. If mom walks in on you while you’re working on the last two, you’ll get the first as a freebie.

how about if the wife walks in with your mom.

Response:

I cannot see the video, but it sounds just like an incident I saw. I was onboard the USS Nimitz in 1991 (about?), when during night flight ops, a F-18 from VFA-147 was attempting to land. His AOA probe was damaged by the basket during in-flight refueling, which resulted in him being in an IFR situation with no "I", if you know what I mean. They tried to wave him off at the last second, but he actually landed short, on what we called the "round down". The round down is perhaps 6 feet wide, runs port to starboard at the aft end of the flight deck, and is tilted away from the flight deck at about a 30 degree angle. Aft of the round down is open space. His landing gear mains, or at least his starboard main gear, hit the round down. Either way, his starboard main gear completely collapsed. He jammed the throttles into AB, in case he missed the wire, and as he was progressing towards the bow, he noticed that he was no longer on a heading to take him safely off the angle, he was headed for a stack of parked aircraft. So punched out. The aircraft had taken the one wire, as it turns out, and came to rest on the port main landing gear, the starboard wingtip, and the engine exhaust nozzles. The bird was still in full afterburner, and it took the crash and smash crew guys to climb up in the cockpit and pull the fuel shutoff handles to shut them down. AFFF straight down the intakes had little or no effect. The AB plume boiled the non-skid off of the flight deck. This scared the shit out of a lot of people, including yours truly, not to mention the pilot. He landed on the flight deck in the Fly3 area and was tackled by a yellowshirt before his chute carried him off the fantail. He was alright and was flying again within a week, and continued to do so for the remainder of the deployment (WestPac). Charles Crain AME2 ex-USN VF-24 (CAG9, CVN-68) 1987-1992 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – JFK did an April – October deployment with CW-8 in 1997.  Must have been during workups. VFA-97 and VFA-115 were the Hornet squadrons. That doesn’t sound right.  VFA-97 would have been with CVW-11.  VFA-87 was with CVW-8 at the time.  VFA-115 was in CVW-14. –Woody

Response:

Everybody knows how difficult it must be to land on a carrier deck.

The three greatest things in life are: 1.  A good adrenalin rush. 2.  A good bowel movement. 3.  A good orgasm. A night carrier landing is an opportunity to experience all three. — Stevie Nicks / Fleetwood Mac streaming audio www.radio17.com

Response:

John, This is one that definitely qualifies as a tweener. –Woody – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Talked to someone knowledgeable about the mishap … knew the pilot and is an F-18 LSO. His opinion … a sharp LSO "right for lineup" was uneccessary and made the LSO culpable as well.  I still disagree, I think the pilot should have had sufficient awareness of his location (essentially in the wires) to make a less dramatic line up correction.  OTOH, I don’t think the LSO should have made the call in the first place. It was a hot discussion topic at LSO school.  OBTW, the mishap aviator is evidently a solid top-10 player for landings (obviously not that day).  And his career didn’t end.  (If he’d been a struggling nugget with a track record of mediocrity at the boat, it might well have been a career-ender.) Point of all this?  Even those with profession experience/knowledge have differing opinions.  And, your career can survive a mishap …. maybe. R / John

Response:

Well, I was on their Tiger Cruise and I’ll claim senior dementia.:-)  It was indeed VFA-87 (I even have a hat) and VFA-15 (Valions).  And it was that cruise.  My favorite LSO reports: "I was on the platform for that pass although I wasn’t controlling or back-up LSO.  The final determination was pilot error, specifically too much line-up correction in close although some voice inflection from the controlling LSO and a late right-for-lineup call was considered by some to be a factor.  There was a formal review and the pilot retained his wings and qualifications–he was an LSO as well.  Basically the premise is that he failed to recognize from utilizing peripheral cues how close he was to touchdown and put in a correction that would have been more appropriate "in the middle" than "in close" or "in the wires". You may have noticed that the airplane was not arrested in a normal manner. Some of the newsgroup may have concluded that the airplane was arrested by the wingtip but actually a damaged tailhook (only the "nub" remained) caught the 2 wire–which arrested the aircraft.  The right wingtip caught the 3 wire and spun the aircraft about 60 degrees and pulled it well over the "foul" line.  The most significant stroke of luck from this incident (a heavily damaged tailhook that somehow worked) saved <snip’s life since this airplane came to a stop only 2 feet from a VFA-87 jet that he had manned up and was sitting in on the bow in an "Alert 7" posture, adjacent to the #2 catapult – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – JFK did an April – October deployment with CW-8 in 1997.  Must have been during workups. VFA-97 and VFA-115 were the Hornet squadrons. That doesn’t sound right.  VFA-97 would have been with CVW-11.  VFA-87 was with CVW-8 at the time.  VFA-115 was in CVW-14. –Woody

Response:

Talked to someone knowledgeable about the mishap … knew the pilot and is an F-18 LSO. His opinion … a sharp LSO "right for lineup" was uneccessary and made the LSO culpable as well.  I still disagree, I think the pilot should have had sufficient awareness of his location (essentially in the wires) to make a less dramatic line up correction.  OTOH, I don’t think the LSO should have made the call in the first place. It was a hot discussion topic at LSO school.  OBTW, the mishap aviator is evidently a solid top-10 player for landings (obviously not that day).  And his career didn’t end.  (If he’d been a struggling nugget with a track record of mediocrity at the boat, it might well have been a career-ender.) Point of all this?  Even those with profession experience/knowledge have differing opinions.  And, your career can survive a mishap …. maybe. R / John

Response:

SNIP It is obvious watching the film, the A/C was low doing the pendulum bit trying to line up on short final.

Not very low (He didn’t taxi to a 1 wire).  The deviations weren’t sufficient to earn a WO.  The LSO platform is about 100 feet left of centerline and late drifts (as developed in the pass) can only be seen on the plat.  B/U LSO probably made the "right for line up call."  In the short hairs, the proper response is a mild wing-dip to honor the call, without compromising landing attitude.  IOW, eat the off center engagement. The LSO should have waved him off.

Disagree.  You can’t fly the aircraft for the guy, he wasn’t ever that far off centerline, his settle was late when he was only "in danger" of grabbing an early wire. The LSO should share blame for not waving him off once he started the low pendulum bit on short final.

Probably will (sharing blame is big in the aviation safety business), but refer to my first comment.  The pass wasn’t that bad (well, until ….) Until the big wing drop in the wires, he was working on a barely (OK) —   RUFLUIC SAR. Touch down was wing low putting all the A/C’s weight on the main gear at an it where it normally folds about the time he caught the wire slamming the gear down at an odd angle. Landing gear are not designed to take this kind of abuse.

True.   And clearly pilot error. Ralph Nesbitt Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type

R / John Former fighter pilot (with a trap or two in the logbook, albeit not in Bugs) and former LSO (until they discovered my parents were married to each other).

Response:

JFK did an April – October deployment with CW-8 in 1997.  Must have been during workups. VFA-97 and VFA-115 were the Hornet squadrons.

That doesn’t sound right.  VFA-97 would have been with CVW-11.  VFA-87 was with CVW-8 at the time.  VFA-115 was in CVW-14. –Woody

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIP If the wire had been caught with the wing only, it would have spun the A/C around, most likely going over the round down backwards. It did catch the wing only.  The airplane did not spin around. Looking at the video it seems that the wingtip caught first and then possibly the hook. If it was "just" the wingtip it does not seem possible that the jet would violently swing to the left after the initial swing to the right. Ric

I apologize.  I took your first post out of context.  I believe you might be correct that if the hook did not also catch, the aircraft may have spun completely around providing the wire didn’t hang up on the left main mount. –Woody

Response:

Everybody knows how difficult it must be to land on a carrier deck. Needless to say that things do go wrong occasionally. Check www.dappa.nl/crash.htm to see a F/A-18 Hornet catch a deck wire with its wingtip and crashland on the carrier. Fortunately it all seems to end without fatal injuries. would a crash like that end a career ?

Did I ask a bad question ?

Response:

JFK did an April – October deployment with CW-8 in 1997.  Must have been during workups. VFA-97 and VFA-115 were the Hornet squadrons.

Everybody knows how difficult it must be to land on a carrier deck. Needless to say that things do go wrong occasionally. Check

www.dappa.nl/crash.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – to see a F/A-18 Hornet catch a deck wire with its wingtip and crashland on the carrier. Fortunately it all seems to end without fatal injuries. Anyone have any more details about this incident ? Pretty spectacular.  Obviously the intrepid aviator overcontrolled his response to the LSO’s lineup call.  Kennedy 1997, maybe a CQ? R / John

Response:

<SNIP If the wire had been caught with the wing only, it would have spun the A/C around, most likely going over the round down backwards.

It did catch the wing only.  The airplane did not spin around. It is obvious watching the film, the A/C was low doing the pendulum bit trying to line up on short final. The LSO should have waved him off. The LSO should share blame for not waving him off once he started the low pendulum bit on short final.

The LSO made a (perhaps too forceful) "Right for lineup" call when the Hornet was too close in response to a left drift.  The pilot made an overly aggressive correction and caught the LAU on the wire. Touch down was wing low putting all the A/C’s weight on the main gear at an where it normally folds about the time he caught the wire slamming the gear down at an odd angle. Landing gear are not designed to take this kind of abuse. Ralph Nesbitt Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type

You’re dyslexic.  The right wingtip and LAU are scraped on the flight deck. You’re correct about the landing gear. –Woody

Response:

<SNIP If the wire had been caught with the wing only, it would have spun the A/C around, most likely going over the round down backwards. It did catch the wing only.  The airplane did not spin around.

Looking at the video it seems that the wingtip caught first and then possibly the hook. If it was "just" the wingtip it does not seem possible that the jet would violently swing to the left after the initial swing to the right. Ric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is obvious watching the film, the A/C was low doing the pendulum bit trying to line up on short final. The LSO should have waved him off. The LSO should share blame for not waving him off once he started the low pendulum bit on short final. The LSO made a (perhaps too forceful) "Right for lineup" call when the Hornet was too close in response to a left drift.  The pilot made an overly aggressive correction and caught the LAU on the wire. Touch down was wing low putting all the A/C’s weight on the main gear at an it where it normally folds about the time he caught the wire slamming the gear down at an odd angle. Landing gear are not designed to take this kind of abuse. Ralph Nesbitt Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type You’re dyslexic.  The right wingtip and LAU are scraped on the flight deck. You’re correct about the landing gear. –Woody

Response:

I would think that one required a flight suit change before and after LSO debrief… Regards, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Everybody knows how difficult it must be to land on a carrier deck. Needless to say that things do go wrong occasionally. Check www.dappa.nl/crash.htm to see a F/A-18 Hornet catch a deck wire with its wingtip and crashland on the carrier. Fortunately it all seems to end without fatal injuries. Anyone have any more details about this incident ? Iwan DAPPA

Response:

Everybody knows how difficult it must be to land on a carrier deck. Needless to say that things do go wrong occasionally. Check www.dappa.nl/crash.htm to see a F/A-18 Hornet catch a deck wire with its wingtip and crashland on the carrier. Fortunately it all seems to end without fatal injuries. Anyone have any more details about this incident ? Pretty spectacular.  Obviously the intrepid aviator overcontrolled his response to the LSO’s lineup call.  Kennedy 1997, maybe a CQ?

Probably not the "Q" part… Regards, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -R / John

Response:

LSO, "Looked good when he went by me!" Pilot, "Any landing’s a good landing if you can walk way from it! Right CAG?" WDA CDR USN Ret. 200 traps (incl. one barrier crash) end

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Everybody knows how difficult it must be to land on a carrier deck. Needless to say that things do go wrong occasionally. Check www.dappa.nl/crash.htm to see a F/A-18 Hornet catch a deck wire with its wingtip and crashland on the carrier. Fortunately it all seems to end without fatal injuries. Anyone have any more details about this incident ? Iwan DAPPA

Response:

Everybody knows how difficult it must be to land on a carrier deck. Needless to say that things do go wrong occasionally. Check www.dappa.nl/crash.htm  to see a F/A-18 Hornet catch a deck wire with its wingtip and crashland on the carrier. Fortunately it all seems to end without fatal injuries.

A true "brown skivvies" moment for the deck guys (watch ‘em running from behind that bird just forward of the Hornet’s final resting place). FWIW, the Hornet caught the wire with the tailhook, not a wingtip.  Though the wingtip sure took a beatin’ when the starboard main gear failed. Little too much "right for lineup," I guess. Jeff 13 traps, all of ‘em dramatic

Response:

Everybody knows how difficult it must be to land on a carrier deck. Needless to say that things do go wrong occasionally. Check www.dappa.nl/crash.htm to see a F/A-18 Hornet catch a deck wire with its wingtip and crashland on the carrier. Fortunately it all seems to end without fatal injuries. Anyone have any more details about this incident ? Iwan DAPPA

Response:

Everybody knows how difficult it must be to land on a carrier deck. Needless to say that things do go wrong occasionally. Check www.dappa.nl/crash.htm to see a F/A-18 Hornet catch a deck wire with its wingtip and crashland on the carrier. Fortunately it all seems to end without fatal injuries. Anyone have any more details about this incident ?

Pretty spectacular.  Obviously the intrepid aviator overcontrolled his response to the LSO’s lineup call.  Kennedy 1997, maybe a CQ? R / John

Response:

First Solo In Actual Conditions

Question:

Before we headed out I ran into my instrument instructor who informed me that one of the pilots who died in the NJ midair last month was a member of our local pilot’s association. This certainly tempered my excitement a bit.

Oh, yes.  You missed that meeting and the picnic.  Depressing, eh? Congrats on your first sans-CFII IMC.  But I’m selfishly glad you didn’t get to Lancaster this time either.  Heh heh heh.         – Andrew

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Saturday I had my first opportunity to fly solo in actual since my IR checkride.  One of my biggest concerns since getting the rating was how I would make my first entry into actual without the benefit of an instructor at my side.  With about ten hours of actual during my training I had always felt comfortable in that environment.  But I knew the true test would be doing it alone, or almost alone.  Another pilot who had just gotten checked out at my FBO and who had passed his instrument checkride about a week earlier wanted to go up, so I figured it would be a great opportunity to get some simulated instrument time, knock off a little rust , and get an approach or two in for currency.  Because the other pilot was only checked-out in planes with normally aspirated engines, we had to use one of the older 172s. Solo?

Jeff, I have the IR, but this was my first time in actual without an instructor. Dave

Response:

Before we headed out I ran into my instrument instructor who informed me that one of the pilots who died in the NJ midair last month was a member of our local pilot’s association. This certainly tempered my excitement a bit. Oh, yes.  You missed that meeting and the picnic.  Depressing, eh? Congrats on your first sans-CFII IMC.  But I’m selfishly glad you didn’t get to Lancaster this time either.  Heh heh heh.         – Andrew

Andrew, Once I realized who it was it was a blow.  We had spoken at the last MAPA meeting that I attended and he congratulated me on completing the IR and told me he was about to resume his training.  With regards to Lancaster just let me know,  you know I’m down for it. Thanks to everyone else for your responses and advice. Dave

Response:

Dave, along the lines of "clarity" which you mentioned: "Normally aspirated" contrasts with "Supercharged", while "Carbureted" contrasts with "Fuel Injected". But that’s OK — we all finally understood what you meant. If I were renting out fuel-injected or and/or supercharged airplanes, I’d also want to be sure my renters understood how to operate them. But I see no reason for the FAA to be involved in the matter. —JRC— – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter, I understand that, which is why in the original post I stated that he was only checked out in normally asirated planes.  When I hear the term "checked out" it usually means being authorized to use the planes of a particular operation. As far as I know the FAA doesn’t see any difference between normally aspirated and fuel injected engines, so I thought it was obvious it was an operator restriction.   Maybe there is another meaning and if so I will provide more clarity in the future. Dave

Response:

If I were renting out fuel-injected or and/or supercharged airplanes, I’d also want to be sure my renters understood how to operate them. But I see no reason for the FAA to be involved in the matter.

Other than some quirks in how you start them, I can’t think of anything you really need to know about fuel injection to safely fly a fuel injected airplane.  Certainly nothing that couldn’t be taught in a couple of minutes (i.e. "there’s no carb heat"). Supercharging is a bit more complicated.  You can get into trouble and/or damage the airplane, if you don’t know how the system works. A much steeper learning curve is mastering the current crop of avionics.   Somebody who did their instrument training with 2 NAV/COMs and an ADF can get themselves into a world of hurt if they launch into IMC with a modern GPS and think they can figure it out as they go.  I guess the FAA figures people are smart enough to not do that.

Response:

Other than some quirks in how you start them,

…which don’t show up until your renter has flown to a distant airport, shut down, and now wants to restart the hot engine.  :) injected airplane.  Certainly nothing that couldn’t be taught in a couple of minutes (i.e. "there’s no carb heat").

You just made me realize that I should know more about my alternate air than I do… — Ben Jackson http://www.ben.com/

Response:

While this flight was certainly a good confidence booster, I realize that flying IMC is a dangerous venture, especially for someone at my experience level. That was the exact effect my first time flying an approach alone in actual IMC had on me.  You realize that you’re in a real, no-kidding, life-or-death situation and the outcome is entirely up to you.  Of course, this is also true of crossing the street, but in instrument flying you have have a lot more on the ball to avoid the "or death" option.

First, fly the airplane. Everything else is secondary.

Response:

Other than some quirks in how you start them, …which don’t show up until your renter has flown to a distant airport, shut down, and now wants to restart the hot engine.  :)

Which is certainly inconvenient, but it’s really difficult to do any serious damage to the airplane if it’s on the ground and you can’t get the engine started

Response:

Other than some quirks in how you start them, …which don’t show up until your renter has flown to a distant airport, shut down, and now wants to restart the hot engine.  :) Which is certainly inconvenient, but it’s really difficult to do any serious damage to the airplane if it’s on the ground and you can’t get the engine started

Yeah, but if it’s MY airplane, I’m the one who has to replace the starter which the renter might overheat by excessive cranking of the balky engine. —JRC—

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Other than some quirks in how you start them, …which don’t show up until your renter has flown to a distant airport, shut down, and now wants to restart the hot engine.  :) Which is certainly inconvenient, but it’s really difficult to do any serious damage to the airplane if it’s on the ground and you can’t get the engine started Yeah, but if it’s MY airplane, I’m the one who has to replace the starter which the renter might overheat by excessive cranking of the balky engine. —JRC—

If it’s a typical rent-a-wreck, the battery will run down long before you can do any damage to the starter.

Response:

If it’s a typical rent-a-wreck, the battery will run down long before you can do any damage to the starter.

FWIW, the fuel-injected rentals at Mac Dan (where the OP rents) include one or two (I’m not sure if the second has arrived) 172S models with whatever Nav Package includes the big MFD along with the BK GPS. They’re nice airplanes, and quite far from the typical wrent-a-reck.  It’s why I used to rent there myself. [Well, they also used to have a 182S.] Lincoln Park Aviation, BTW, also has three (four?) 172Ss on their rental line.  They got some of my business too.         – Andrew

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Saturday I had my first opportunity to fly solo in actual since my IR checkride.  One of my biggest concerns since getting the rating was how I would make my first entry into actual without the benefit of an instructor at my side.  With about ten hours of actual during my training I had always felt comfortable in that environment.  But I knew the true test would be doing it alone, or almost alone.  Another pilot who had just gotten checked out at my FBO and who had passed his instrument checkride about a week earlier wanted to go up, so I figured it would be a great opportunity to get some simulated instrument time, knock off a little rust , and get an approach or two in for currency. Congratulations on making this a true workout and well planned experience. But…  Because the other pilot was only checked-out in planes with normally aspirated engines, we had to use one of the older 172s. You do understand that FAA regulations would not have stopped you using any single-engine plane? (you don’t specify the difference) If he couldn’t be acting PIC, you would have been acting PIC even while right seat. I’m assuming it’s club regulations that forbade him either to be SP or left seat in the other plane. — David Brooks

David, Since we wanted to switch seats at the destination, he wouldn’t have been able to fly left seat without being checked out. Dave

Response:

Since we wanted to switch seats at the destination, he wouldn’t have been able to fly left seat without being checked out.

As David said, that would be a club regulation issue.  The FAA has no prohibition against you acting as PIC from the right seat, nor against him manipulating the controls from the left. Perhaps you should clarify whose rules you’re talking about and what you mean by "checked out". Pete

Response:

Solo? Jeff, I have the IR, but this was my first time in actual without an instructor.

I think he was referring to the pilot in the right seat.  I know he wasn’t your instructor or instrument-rated himself, but any sort of pilot who can dial in frequencies and squawk codes is quite a help when flying IMC.  My first IMC without an instructor (in July) was with a passenger who doesn’t know his ass from his elbow when it comes to planes, but he was still able act as a pen and chart holder!  I dropped him off and then got about 2 minutes of truly solo solid IMC while climbing through an overcast layer, but the rest of the flight was in the sunshine on top and the destination was VFR. Jeremy

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Saturday I had my first opportunity to fly solo in actual since my IR checkride.  One of my biggest concerns since getting the rating was how I would make my first entry into actual without the benefit of an instructor at my side.  With about ten hours of actual during my training I had always felt comfortable in that environment.  But I knew the true test would be doing it alone, or almost alone.  Another pilot who had just gotten checked out at my FBO and who had passed his instrument checkride about a week earlier wanted to go up, so I figured it would be a great opportunity to get some simulated instrument time, knock off a little rust , and get an approach or two in for currency.  Because the other pilot was only checked-out in planes with normally aspirated engines, we had to use one of the older 172s. Solo? Jeff, I have the IR, but this was my first time in actual without an instructor. Dave

Gotcha. I kept waiting for the other guy to leave. <g Congrats. It’s pretty fun knowing you can get through that stuff by yourself isn’t it? — Jeff ‘The Wizard of Draws’ Bucchino Cartoons with a Touch of Magic http://www.wizardofdraws.com http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Response:

Peter, I understand that, which is why in the original post I stated that he was only checked out in normally asirated planes.  When I hear the term "checked out" it usually means being authorized to use the planes of a particular operation. As far as I know the FAA doesn’t see any difference between normally aspirated and fuel injected engines, so I thought it was obvious it was an operator restriction.   Maybe there is another meaning and if so I will provide more clarity in the future. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since we wanted to switch seats at the destination, he wouldn’t have been able to fly left seat without being checked out. As David said, that would be a club regulation issue.  The FAA has no prohibition against you acting as PIC from the right seat, nor against him manipulating the controls from the left. Perhaps you should clarify whose rules you’re talking about and what you mean by "checked out". Pete

Response:

Jeff, I guess the correct phrase would have been sans-CFII instead of solo. It was fun, but served to reinforce my belief that it is to be respected. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Saturday I had my first opportunity to fly solo in actual since my IR checkride.  One of my biggest concerns since getting the rating was how I would make my first entry into actual without the benefit of an instructor at my side.  With about ten hours of actual during my training I had always felt comfortable in that environment.  But I knew the true test would be doing it alone, or almost alone.  Another pilot who had just gotten checked out at my FBO and who had passed his instrument checkride about a week earlier wanted to go up, so I figured it would be a great opportunity to get some simulated instrument time, knock off a little rust , and get an approach or two in for currency.  Because the other pilot was only checked-out in planes with normally aspirated engines, we had to use one of the older 172s. Solo? Jeff, I have the IR, but this was my first time in actual without an instructor. Dave Gotcha. I kept waiting for the other guy to leave. <g Congrats. It’s pretty fun knowing you can get through that stuff by yourself isn’t it?

Response:

Yes; I just wanted to verify this is the case because there are common misapprehensions about the regulatory qualifications needed to fly the plane or act as SP. I suppose your phrase "normally aspirated" as opposed to "fixed gear" or "under 200HP" should have clued me that wasn’t what you meant. — David Brooks Peter, I understand that, which is why in the original post I stated that he was only checked out in normally asirated planes.  When I hear the term "checked out" it usually means being authorized to use the planes of a particular operation. As far as I know the FAA doesn’t see any difference between normally aspirated and fuel injected engines, so I thought it was obvious it was an operator restriction.   Maybe there is another meaning and if so I will provide more clarity in the future. Dave

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since we wanted to switch seats at the destination, he wouldn’t have been able to fly left seat without being checked out. As David said, that would be a club regulation issue.  The FAA has no prohibition against you acting as PIC from the right seat, nor against him manipulating the controls from the left. Perhaps you should clarify whose rules you’re talking about and what you mean by "checked out". Pete

Response:

On Saturday I had my first opportunity to fly solo in actual since my IR checkride.  One of my biggest concerns since getting the rating was how I would make my first entry into actual without the benefit of an instructor at my side.  With about ten hours of actual during my training I had always felt comfortable in that environment.  But I knew the true test would be doing it alone, or almost alone.  Another pilot who had just gotten checked out at my FBO and who had passed his instrument checkride about a week earlier wanted to go up, so I figured it would be a great opportunity to get some simulated instrument time, knock off a little rust , and get an approach or two in for currency.

Congratulations on making this a true workout and well planned experience. But…  Because the other pilot was only checked-out in planes with normally aspirated engines, we had to use one of the older 172s.

You do understand that FAA regulations would not have stopped you using any single-engine plane? (you don’t specify the difference) If he couldn’t be acting PIC, you would have been acting PIC even while right seat. I’m assuming it’s club regulations that forbade him either to be SP or left seat in the other plane. — David Brooks

Response:

While this flight was certainly a good confidence booster, I realize that flying IMC is a dangerous venture, especially for someone at my experience level.

That was the exact effect my first time flying an approach alone in actual IMC had on me.  You realize that you’re in a real, no-kidding, life-or-death situation and the outcome is entirely up to you.  Of course, this is also true of crossing the street, but in instrument flying you have have a lot more on the ball to avoid the "or death" option. That’s why I still fly with my instructor every two months or so.

Hope you’re better at keeping that resolution than most pilots (including me) are. — Dan C-172RG at BFM

Response:

oops: true of crossing the street, but in instrument flying you have have

"have to have" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – a lot more on the ball to avoid the "or death" option. That’s why I still fly with my instructor every two months or so. Hope you’re better at keeping that resolution than most pilots (including me) are. — Dan C-172RG at BFM

Response:

On Saturday I had my first opportunity to fly solo in actual since my IR checkride.  One of my biggest concerns since getting the rating was how I would make my first entry into actual without the benefit of an instructor at my side.  With about ten hours of actual during my training I had always felt comfortable in that environment.  But I knew the true test would be doing it alone, or almost alone.  Another pilot who had just gotten checked out at my FBO and who had passed his instrument checkride about a week earlier wanted to go up, so I figured it would be a great opportunity to get some simulated instrument time, knock off a little rust , and get an approach or two in for currency.  Because the other pilot was only checked-out in planes with normally aspirated engines, we had to use one of the older 172s.

Solo? — Jeff ‘The Wizard of Draws’ Bucchino Cartoons with a Touch of Magic http://www.wizardofdraws.com http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Response:

On Saturday I had my first opportunity to fly solo in actual since my IR checkride.  One of my biggest concerns since getting the rating was how I would make my first entry into actual without the benefit of an instructor at my side.  With about ten hours of actual during my training I had always felt comfortable in that environment.  But I knew the true test would be doing it alone, or almost alone.  Another pilot who had just gotten checked out at my FBO and who had passed his instrument checkride about a week earlier wanted to go up, so I figured it would be a great opportunity to get some simulated instrument time, knock off a little rust , and get an approach or two in for currency.  Because the other pilot was only checked-out in planes with normally aspirated engines, we had to use one of the older 172s.  This is as bare bones as one can get with none of the small conveniences of the newer models that makes flying IFR  much easier. The original plan was to fly to Lancaster PA to check out a locally famous pilot shop, but because we were both time constrained we decided to fly to Wilkes Barre PA, which was a little closer. The weather was forecast to be clear for the entire time we were in the air, with storms forecast for possibly a lot later in the day.  Before we headed out I ran into my instrument instructor who informed me that one of the pilots who died in the NJ midair last month was a member of our local pilot’s association. This certainly tempered my excitement a bit. By the time we departed we saw some cumulus build-up to the west and I figured that I may have an opportunity to get some actual after all, as I was flying the first leg.  Shortly after takeoff we were in and out of the clouds.   My safety alerted me to imminent entry so that I could remove the Jepp Shades and receive the full benefit of the white around us.  It soon got to the point where we were in the clouds so often that I didn’t need the shades at all.  I will admit that I was a bit nervous especially when things got bumpy in the clouds; but I remembered to keep my scan going and realized that this is what it was all about.  While there was the assurance of having another qualified pilot in the plane, I flew with the urgency that I would if it were only me and my loved ones.  As we got closer to the Allentown VOR the controller informed us that some cells were popping up and it wasn’t too long before we heard the bigger guys requesting diversions.  The controller informed us that he would give us whatever vectors we needed to keep clear of the cells.  I informed him that we didn’t have radar and asked for a vector around the weather, which we received. We kept a visual lookout for cells, but fortunately the diversion kept us west of most of the activity.  About 30 miles from the destination we picked up some rain and were in solid IMC at 5000 feet.  I requested and received 4000 feet to get us below most of the stuff.  I briefed the ILS Rwy 22 approach while still in IMC, but I didn’t feel rushed doing it.   I was vectored for the approach, got established on the localizer, and performed a GUMPS before intercepting the glideslope.  At this point we were VMC and I was back under the hood. One thing that I forgot to do was to drop my first notch of flaps before intercepting the glideslope, which wasn’t a big deal.  What I was upset about was that once I realized that I had forgotten to put them in, I disrupted the stability of the approach and dropped them. Although I hadn’t flown an ILS in over a month and the one I was flying wasn’t the prettiest, it was certainly well within PTS and there was no need to add the flaps at all.  My safety called the DH and despite my other attempt to botch the approach I made a good landing.  We taxied off and switched seats for the return trip.  I was beat and was looking forward to sitting in the right seat, but felt a great deal of accomplishment.  I flew 1.4 hours with just about an hour in actual. I found the opportunity to act as a safety a truly eye-opening experience.  Not only was I able to help with the radios and pick up instructions that the pilot flying may have missed, but watching someone else fly the plane was extremely beneficial.  Because the other pilot had never flown approaches at Caldwell, I was able to offer tips and to help him brief the approach, all while keeping an eye open for traffic of course.  This trip certainly reinforced my belief that we should equip ourselves with every advantage possible when flying IMC, especially hard IMC.  Although I didn’t have it with me, my handheld GPS would have been of tremendous help in maintaining situational awareness. Of course flying a newer plane with more advanced avionics, standby vacuums systems, and an autopilot certainly would have helped.  But perhaps the greatest benefit is having someone sitting next to you that can help out if needed.  While this flight was certainly a good confidence booster, I realize that flying IMC is a dangerous venture, especially for someone at my experience level. That’s why I still fly with my instructor every two months or so.

Response:

Yeah! I'm back online..No thanks to Charley.

Question:

The weather service actually does provide a forecast of the general region, with a percentage probability that the hurricane will stay within that zone. The high probability zone can actually be quite large, and moving your plane just barely outside that zone still doesn’t guarantee that the airplane is safe.

Then we move again. I’ve flown within 40 miles of the eye of 3 hurricanes starting with David in 1979 and including Andrew. I’ve flown through the feeder bands of countless other hurricanes and tropical depessions. If I’m moving just one airplane out of a storm’s path, I’ll move 100 miles to side of the NWS forecasted path. I’ll track the storm’s progress and move again if need be. If I’m moving several planes, and I won’t be able to move them all if the storm does take a surprise turn, I’ll fly 200 miles or more perpendicular to the forecasted path. For perspective, the worst atrocity I’ve seen wasn’t from a hurricane. It was from a tornado that crossed 3 airports and destroyed nearly 200 planes in less than a half hour. D.

Response:

Consider this- If I’m sitting in a hotel with my plane secured safely, who is going to keep looters out of my home? Mr. Winchester doesn’t work by himself.

Ah, yes — the paradise of Flori-duh. I always tend to forget that Iowa (actually, the Midwest) is the exception rather than the rule when it comes to having little or no crime. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

Pilots don’t have to fly far to escape a hurricane.

That would be true if anyone actually knew where the hurricane was going to be.  But no one does. The weather service actually does provide a forecast of the general region, with a percentage probability that the hurricane will stay within that zone. The high probability zone can actually be quite large, and moving your plane just barely outside that zone still doesn’t guarantee that the airplane is safe. Pete

Response:

if you have your house, car, camping mobile, family, business, etc. in Florida, then it doesn’t become a very hard decision wheter to save the plane first or the house + family.

??? How are they mutually exclusive?   You’re not going to be able to do much to save the house — and the family can go in the plane… — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

I mean, from Orlando to Albany is what, 1:45?   It would seem like cheap insurance, and a great excuse to go flying somewhere for the weekend?

Bonnie effectively cut off the northerly escape route for most VFR pilots.

Response:

isn’t all of Florida pretty much under the gun when a hurricane approaches? Wouldn’t it have been better to fly the planes out-of-state?

Charlie’s hurricane force winds (74mph & higher) had a 10 mile width. In general, if you are 40 miles sideways from the eye, you are relatively safe. Pilots don’t have to fly far to escape a hurricane. As for the damaged planes, I suspect a number of them had the radios and other goodies pulled out before the storm hit. It seems like a waste of aluminum, but an insurance check comes in handy to a retiree on fixed income. Consider this- If I’m sitting in a hotel with my plane secured safely, who is going to keep looters out of my home? Mr. Winchester doesn’t work by himself. D.

Response:

Well it’s been a week since Charley took out my internet cable line, but I’m back online today. The damage that Charley did to the planes across the street at Orlando Executive is indeed sad to see.

Welcome back. I trust you came through okay, since you didn’t mention otherwise? — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

Welcome back. I trust you came through okay, since you didn’t mention otherwise?

My place was just fine, I only lost the internet because it comes to me via cable and a tree took that out when it fell. But I stayed with my daughter and my ex-wife at their house (by their request). In that neighborhood things did not fair as well. The area they live in is known for its towering oak trees and when those larger than the house trees came down they did allot of damage to anything in their path. Its funny to see how many Monday morning quarterbacks are saying what should have been down to avoid the damage to all the planes. The fact is, that many in Tampa (where the storm was to originally come ashore) brought their planes to Orlando for shelter only to be placed directly in the path of the hurricane. I have some pictures posted on my site at: http://www.floridascubadiver.com/hurricane_charley.htm David PP-ASEL (KORL)

Response:

I have some pictures posted on my site at: http://www.floridascubadiver.com/hurricane_charley.htm

God, those pix are awful. I don’t know anything about hurricanes, so you’ll excuse my ignorance, but isn’t all of Florida pretty much under the gun when a hurricane approaches? Wouldn’t it have been better to fly the planes out-of-state? Somewhere like Albany, GA? I mean, from Orlando to Albany is what, 1:45?   It would seem like cheap insurance, and a great excuse to go flying somewhere for the weekend? — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

I mean, from Orlando to Albany is what, 1:45?   It would seem like cheap insurance, and a great excuse to go flying somewhere for the weekend?

if you have your house, car, camping mobile, family, business, etc. in Florida, then it doesn’t become a very hard decision wheter to save the plane first or the house + family. just my $0.02 #m — The more one is absorbed in fighting Evil, the less one is tempted to place the Good in question. (J.P. Sartre)

Response:

Well it’s been a week since Charley took out my internet cable line, but I’m back online today. The damage that Charley did to the planes across the street at Orlando Executive is indeed sad to see. Many of the hangars have also received quite a bit of damage, one even looks like a bomb went off inside. I would like to express my thanks to all the power companies that came to our rescue. I don’t have a complete list but I did see the following out of state power companies: Georgia Power, Illinois Power, Duke Power, Sumter Utilities and I’m sure there were others that I didn’t see. But thank you all… David PP-ASEL (KORL)

Response:

Homebuilding Killed John Denver

Question:

I guess the good thing from Mr. Denvers death is that the public at large knows about this practice, and maybe can do something about it to make our skyways a safer place. What planet are you from that you just rrealized that individuals were building planes?  If you would get a little more familiar with the aspects involved with home building, you would not completely dismiss an interesting and fulfilling pasttime.  Some depart from original plans and modify things.  If researched, they turn out very well.  Denver was not completely familiar with a Plane he BOUGHT and it bit him. Bill OParowski

Response:

I just read in the newspaper that John Denver was killed in a homebuilt airplane?  That got me thinking to look for a NG that might be dedicated to this activity, and I found this one.

<morbid humor This newsgroup is not at all dedicated to killing John Denver. </morbid humor Rob

Response:

… This is all new to me, quite honestly, and disturbing.  People are building airplanes at home and then flying them?  This is endangering people on the ground and in the air flying in real airplanes. ….

Fortunately, we have a gov’t which allows people to engage in recreational activities, some riskier than others, based upon actual data as to the risk to the general population. Any airplane can crash into a house and  they occasionally do, but it is extremely rare they even injure anybody.  Same with automobiles, and they hit houses much more often.  There’s far more meteorites which strike earth than airplanes, but the reason there’s no real hazard to us is the statistical chances of hitting anybody, or even houses.  Collision between aircraft is extremely rare too, but whether or a homebuilt is involved has nothing to do with the cause. Rock climbers fall off rock faces, and most pilots won’t even think of that as their kind of recreation.  But until climbers start killing "innocent" people down below, there’s no need for laws.  A kid on a skateboard can kill a frail senior citizen if he/she falls and suffers brain injury.  Maybe very rarely that has occurred, but merchants merely post signs and cops don’t arrest our kids. The orig post is yet another instance where some people do not want gov’t controls on their recreation, but they just have to do something about all those other people, merely because they don’t understand their form of recreation. F–

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess the good thing from Mr. Denvers death is that the public at large knows about this practice, and maybe can do something about it to make our skyways a safer place. What planet are you from that you just rrealized that individuals were building planes?  If you would get a little more familiar with the aspects involved with home building, you would not completely dismiss an interesting and fulfilling pasttime.  Some depart from original plans and modify things.  If researched, they turn out very well.  Denver was not completely familiar with a Plane he BOUGHT and it bit him. Bill OParowski

Bill, this is possibly one of the most obvious Troll’s to hit rec.aviation.homebuilt since the last time this almost identical comment appeared some several years ago. There’s no question, just comment designed to stir things up.  It’s exactly like going into an NRA group and telling them you intend to outlaw all handguns. Ignor it. Corky Scott

Response:

I just read in the newspaper that John Denver was killed in a homebuilt airplane?  That got me thinking to look for a NG that might be dedicated to this activity, and I found this one. This is all new to me, quite honestly, and disturbing.  People are building airplanes at home and then flying them?  This is endangering people on the ground and in the air flying in real airplanes. I guess the good thing from Mr. Denvers death is that the public at large knows about this practice, and maybe can do something about it to make our skyways a safer place.

My first instinct was to tear into you with all sorts of personal insults against you intelligence, your heritage, and so on.  My second thought was to assume that you were yet another sick troll trying to start a flame war. Instead, for the moment, I will make the assumption that you are simply a very uninformed individual who needs to be educated on some facts. Yes, John Denver was killed in a homebuilt aircraft but your subject title "Homebuilding Killed John Denver" shows that you are pretty ignorant of the facts.  The reality of the event is that STUPIDITY killed John Denver, not the "homebuilt airplane".  John Denver has just purchased the aircraft, had not flown many hours in the aircraft and was unfamilar with the fuel system, the range of the aircraft and flying the aircraft.  He had flown the aircraft for several hours without refueling and took-off without filling the fuel tanks. He was flying too low over an area that he should not have been flying over to begin with.  He then exhausted the fuel in one tank and caused the plane to dive into the water while trying to switch tanks.  There were several things that John Denver could have done differently, any one of which would have totally changed the outcome.   First, the fuel selector valve did not have a proper control handle and a pair of vicegrips were being used to turn the valve.  This should have been repaired before any flights and it was John’s responsibility to see to that.  It has also been indicated that the placement of the valve was a contributing factor and to some degree it was since it required the pilot to take his concentration from flying the plane to work the valvel.  The plane hand been flown for many hours without incident with it placed there.   Second, the placement of the fuel valve required a movement by the pilot that could easily have resulted in the pilot pushing on one of the rudder controls in the process.  This could have been the contributing factor in the reported dive into the water.  Even if this was the case, had John Denver not been flying so low, he could have easily recoverd from the dive without problems. Had he replaced the vicegrips with a normal control handle it would not have required as much movement or attention from flying.   Next, John was in such a hurry to get into and fly his plane that he failed the first rule of flying, preflight your aircraft and make sure you have a plane that is ready to fly.  That means that YOU have enough fuel for the flight before you takeoff.  It had NOTHING to do with being a homebuilt aircraft that he failed to fill his fuel tanks before flying.   There are several additional problems with John’s flight but that should give you some idea that homebuilding has nothing to do with John Denver’s death.  It was the same type of stupid mistakes that could kill you on the highway today. Yes, people are building airplanes at home and flying them.  These are NOT some Rule-Goldberg type aircraft that are endangering people on the ground or other "real" aircraft.  They are very "REAL" aircraft that in many cases represent the best that aviation has to offer.  They do not present any greater danger than the manufactured production "real" aircraft.  The quality of their construction often far exceeds that of production aircraft. Nothing good came from Mr. Denver’s death, especially if the ignorance of people like you is used to "do something about it".  Do yourself and everyone else a favor, either become educated to the facts or mind your own business and take on some cause that really needs your attention like elimination of dog owners who let their dogs defficate in my front yard. Bob Reed www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com      (KIS Builders Site) KIS Cruiser in progress…Slow but steady progress…. "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!" (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)    

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I just read in the newspaper that John Denver was killed in a homebuilt airplane?  That got me thinking to look for a NG that might be dedicated to this activity, and I found this one. This is all new to me, quite honestly, and disturbing.  People are building airplanes at home and then flying them?  This is endangering people on the ground and in the air flying in real airplanes. I guess the good thing from Mr. Denvers death is that the public at large knows about this practice, and maybe can do something about it to make our skyways a safer place.

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Maybe so, but a troll killed two of the Billy Goats Gruff. I still love the theme park ride in South Park:  "The John Denver Experience" (not suitable for pregnant women).

I’m a rabid south park fan, and I’ve missed that one! Care to give a brief description? or does the title pretty much say it all  ? take care Blll

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Who is eric cobb? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Read: http://www.ecobb.net/Denver.htm

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And what did I say that you think is ‘trolling’?  Responding to the troll who started this thread?

Two trolls – two many…

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Maybe so, but a troll killed two of the Billy Goats Gruff.

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Maybe so, but a troll killed two of the Billy Goats Gruff.

I still love the theme park ride in South Park:  "The John Denver Experience" (not suitable for pregnant women).

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I just read in the newspaper that John Denver was killed in a homebuilt airplane?  That got me thinking to look for a NG that might be dedicated to this activity, and I found this one. This is all new to me, quite honestly, and disturbing.  People are building airplanes at home and then flying them?  This is endangering people on the ground and in the air flying in real airplanes. I guess the good thing from Mr. Denvers death is that the public at large knows about this practice, and maybe can do something about it to make our skyways a safer place.

The trolls get less skillful every year… Matt

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I just read in the newspaper that John Denver was killed in a homebuilt airplane?  That got me thinking to look for a NG that might be dedicated to this activity, and I found this one.

<snip If you had even the foggiest idea what happened to the last troll who tried this, you would have stayed far, far away from our newsgroup. Del Rawlins–   Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website: http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

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Read: http://www.ecobb.net/Denver.htm

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He’s in Utah, your in Maryland… My what?  …is in Maryland?

I like that – your right is to be correct; you know you’re right!

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And the housing market has been doing so well. I guess folks should stop building new homes….

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Why are you so obsessed with proving you can gleen IP addresses from headers, and use Google?  Something any kid can do.  Not very impressive. And what did I say that you think is ‘trolling’?  Responding to the troll who started this thread?

He’s in Utah, your in Maryland… My what?  …is in Maryland? Baltimore / Cockeysville area… 141.157.89.127 "anonymous trolls" – aren’t really so anonymous… Motherboard memory issues yesterday:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=no-spam%40for-me.com&hl=en&lr=&ie=U… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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That’s like saying that Mercedes Benz killed Princes Di – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I just read in the newspaper that John Denver was killed in a homebuilt airplane?  That got me thinking to look for a NG that might be dedicated to this activity, and I found this one. This is all new to me, quite honestly, and disturbing.  People are building airplanes at home and then flying them?  This is endangering people on the ground and in the air flying in real airplanes. I guess the good thing from Mr. Denvers death is that the public at large knows about this practice, and maybe can do something about it to make our skyways a safer place.

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I just read in the newspaper that anonymous trolls, with just a few clicks of a mouse, can set up fake accounts and post moronic opinions on the internet, totally anonymously.

He’s in Utah, your in Maryland…

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He’s in Utah, your in Maryland…

My what?  …is in Maryland?

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He’s in Utah, your in Maryland… My what?  …is in Maryland?

Baltimore / Cockeysville area… 141.157.89.127 "anonymous trolls" – aren’t really so anonymous… Motherboard memory issues yesterday: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=no-spam%40for-me.com&hl=en&lr=&ie=U…

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I just read in the newspaper that John Denver was killed in a homebuilt airplane?  That got me thinking to look for a NG that might be dedicated to this activity, and I found this one. This is all new to me, quite honestly, and disturbing.  People are building airplanes at home and then flying them?  This is endangering people on the ground and in the air flying in real airplanes. I guess the good thing from Mr. Denvers death is that the public at large knows about this practice, and maybe can do something about it to make our skyways a safer place.

<groan Aside from the fact that John Denver’s music sucked, the fact that the airplane was homebuilt was not what killed him. <plonk!

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Most trolls have the decency to at least camoflage their intent a bit. Do a search on Google under this thread title <:-)) Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com

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It gets worse, never_moore352…. I just read in the newspaper that anonymous trolls, with just a few clicks of a mouse, can set up fake accounts and post moronic opinions on the internet, totally anonymously. This is, to me, quite disturbing.  People are allowed by the government to do this?  Obviously this creates too much opportunity for mischief. This endangers national security, lives, and our safety.  Why, someone could post information which might be valuable to terrorists!  Or express an opinion contrary to the public good! Please, PLEASE, ask the government to take away this "right", in order to make the world a safer place for people like us.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just read in the newspaper that John Denver was killed in a homebuilt airplane?  That got me thinking to look for a NG that might be dedicated to this activity, and I found this one. This is all new to me, quite honestly, and disturbing.  People are building airplanes at home and then flying them?  This is endangering people on the ground and in the air flying in real airplanes. I guess the good thing from Mr. Denvers death is that the public at large knows about this practice, and maybe can do something about it to make our skyways a safer place.

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OMG… I just read that this guy named John F Kennedy, Jr..the son of some famous dead guy… died in a plane crash in a Piper Saratoga.. I think that they should outlaw the Piper line of airplanes, since obviously they couldnt design a plane intelligent enough to overcome the pilot’s lack of skills and judgement… Dave, the counter-troll… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It gets worse, never_moore352…. I just read in the newspaper that anonymous trolls, with just a few clicks of a mouse, can set up fake accounts and post moronic opinions on the internet, totally anonymously. This is, to me, quite disturbing.  People are allowed by the government to do this?  Obviously this creates too much opportunity for mischief. This endangers national security, lives, and our safety.  Why, someone could post information which might be valuable to terrorists!  Or express an opinion contrary to the public good! Please, PLEASE, ask the government to take away this "right", in order to make the world a safer place for people like us. I just read in the newspaper that John Denver was killed in a homebuilt airplane?  That got me thinking to look for a NG that might be dedicated to this activity, and I found this one. This is all new to me, quite honestly, and disturbing.  People are building airplanes at home and then flying them?  This is endangering people on the ground and in the air flying in real airplanes. I guess the good thing from Mr. Denvers death is that the public at large knows about this practice, and maybe can do something about it to make our skyways a safer place.

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T-hangar's bi-fold door: Convert to a motorized opening door?

Question:

[...] The ones with which I’ve dealt are pretty bulletproof. You might want to change brands the next time yours goes.

The one I had to fix is a Craftsman.  I don’t know how old it is. As far as the gearing/load issue goes: a certain amount of work (force over distance) will be required to raise the door.  If the hangar door needs to be raised more distance than a garage door does, then more work will be required for the hangar door, all else being equal. Of course, if the hangar door is carefully counter-balanced and is on frictionless mounts, then practically no force is required to move it, and practically no work is required over the entire opening process. But assuming that past the gear that reduces the force required on the chain is a door that is similar in nature to a garage door with respect to the end resultant force required to move it, you don’t get something for nothing. In order to "extend" the range of the garage door opener enough to match the total range of the hangar door, you’ll have to reduce the leverage of the garage door so much that the force becomes an issue. Pete

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Of course, you’d put my kids out of business.  (We pay them 25 cents for each opening…) 25 cents?  Wow, that cheap labor.  :)

Assuming 1 minute to open the door, that’s 60 * 0.25 = $15 an hour. Paul

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[snip] I have my show sawdust system run by an old opener.  The only parts I had to buy were two new limit switches, and a bit of wire.  The two new switches

Hello Jim, What in the world is a "show sawdust system"???? Thanks, John Clonts Temple, Texas

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Hello Jim, What in the world is a "show sawdust system"???? Thanks, John Clonts Temple, Texas

<Chuckle That is the same as a "shop" sawdust system, but with fat thumbs, and late at night. In the event that you are not up with what I do, I teach carpentry in grades 10, 11 and 12.  We have a pretty big cyclone, shared by two shops.  It is loud to talk over, so I wanted to turn it off and on at will, from anywhere in the shop, thus the Rube Goldberg engineering.  My students thought I WAS CRAZY, until they saw it work. <g — Jim in NC

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So if your door is 10′ tall you do not need to change the reduction at all, but if your door is taller then 10′ you would have to change the reduction.

Since this is a folding door, it’s not a matter of the door height at all. It’s purely a matter of how much of the chain on his door he needs to pull to raise it versus how much chain the opener pulls before it hits its limit switch. If the limit switch on the GDO is adjustable, there’s no need for a reduction mechanism at all. George Patterson      If you want to know God’s opinion of money, just look at the people      he gives it to.

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    * You will want to ensure that the mechanism inside the opener is up to the task.  The garage door opener I’ve had open has a nylon worm drive to turn the main sprocket for the chain.  It wears out even under normal garage use, with a counter-spring to help reduce the forces involved.  Even if the hangar door is counter-weighted somehow, there may be more friction with the larger door.  It may be a lot to ask of little plastic pieces.

I had assumed from the description that the opening mechanism on the hangar door is similar to others with which I’ve dealt. In those, the chain is operated by hand and requires only negligible force. It drives a gear that operates the actual opening mechanism. Usually the gearing is such that the chain must be pulled a considerable distance to raise the door, which is what results in it being so easy to pull around. The doors with which I am familiar would require less from the GDO than normal garage doors would require. As for wearing out, there was a Craftsman unit in the house I used to own when I bought it in 1988. It was still working well when I sold the house in 2001. The two Genie units in my existing home were in it when we bought in 2000 and are doing just fine so far. No telling how old they are. I installed one for a friend back in 1985 and it’s still in service. The ones with which I’ve dealt are pretty bulletproof. You might want to change brands the next time yours goes. George Patterson      If you want to know God’s opinion of money, just look at the people      he gives it to.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Garage door openers drive a sprocket that operates a circular chain. Some of the older units had a block on the chain that tripped a switch when the door was raised. This block could be adjusted to fine-tune the system. My Genie units do not have this. I assume (but do not know) that they simply pull the chain for a fixed distance (most doors are 7′ tall). So. Measure the distance you have to pull your chain to open the hangar door. Work out the ratio between that and 7′. Rig a reduction gear out of two appropriately sized pulleys and a belt and drive that from a chain driven by a garage door opener. You can probably use your existing chain pulley as one pulley in the reduction gear and mount the whole thing high on the wall. Thanks, George.  I might just try this project. Actually many residential garage doors will open up a 10′ high door when they have the right length rail & chain. So if your door is 10′ tall you do not need to change the reduction at all, but if your door is taller then 10′ you would have to change the reduction. However if you change the reduction very much (depends on door height) you are also going to increase the speed that the door opens which may result in an unsafe operating condition & is also going to put more wear & tear on the door. Residential garage door openers are not designed for this type of use & for your own safety is not something I would personally recommend doing. Doordoc

I would say, that a proper application of a residential opener could be safe, and reliable.  It would take some doing. Gear the output of the opener, so that the door moves at a speed comparable to how fast the door would move, if it were being opened manually.  This would mean a much longer cycle time than the electric opener was designed for, so the original limit switches would not work.  A Craftsman (Sears) opener, of older design had built in limit switches run by a threaded rod, to control the start and stop locations, and thus times.  Keep the concept, but instead of pushing the switches using the built in threaded rod, relocate new switches, so the doors physically push on the new switches to start, stop, and reverse the movement. I have my show sawdust system run by an old opener.  The only parts I had to buy were two new limit switches, and a bit of wire.  The two new switches are actuated by the threaded rod, but the original switches still start and stop the opener.  The new switches hold in the coil for the magnetic starter circuit, and still let the pushbutton stations operate normally  when the remote is not being used. Good luck.  Contact me, if you want to make a go at it.  I do happen to have one more old opener on hand, ) — Jim in NC — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Garage door openers drive a sprocket that operates a circular chain. Some of the older units had a block on the chain that tripped a switch when the door was raised. This block could be adjusted to fine-tune the system. My Genie units do not have this. I assume (but do not know) that they simply pull the chain for a fixed distance (most doors are 7′ tall). So. Measure the distance you have to pull your chain to open the hangar door. Work out the ratio between that and 7′. Rig a reduction gear out of two appropriately sized pulleys and a belt and drive that from a chain driven by a garage door opener. You can probably use your existing chain pulley as one pulley in the reduction gear and mount the whole thing high on the wall. Thanks, George.  I might just try this project.

Actually many residential garage doors will open up a 10′ high door when they have the right length rail & chain. So if your door is 10′ tall you do not need to change the reduction at all, but if your door is taller then 10′ you would have to change the reduction. However if you change the reduction very much (depends on door height) you are also going to increase the speed that the door opens which may result in an unsafe operating condition & is also going to put more wear & tear on the door. Residential garage door openers are not designed for this type of use & for your own safety is not something I would personally recommend doing. Doordoc

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Here’s a silly question:  Is there any way to convert a t-hangar’s manually opening bi-fold door to a motorized one?   I just rented a t-hangar that uses a circular chain hanging off a large pulley near the top of the hangar to control the door.  The chain must be pulled thirty to forty times to fully open or close the bi-fold door.   Perhaps some type of conversion to an automatic garage door opener? Has anyone ever done anything like this? — Peter

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Here’s a silly question:  Is there any way to convert a t-hangar’s manually opening bi-fold door to a motorized one?   I just rented a t-hangar that uses a circular chain hanging off a large pulley near the top of the hangar to control the door.  The chain must be pulled thirty to forty times to fully open or close the bi-fold door.   Perhaps some type of conversion to an automatic garage door opener? Has anyone ever done anything like this?

Or ditch the stupid crappy bi fold completely and get a hydroswing to really go first class.

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Here’s a silly question:  Is there any way to convert a t-hangar’s manually opening bi-fold door to a motorized one?

If you figure this one out, please let us all know.  Our hangar is over 40 years old, and it would sure be nice to just push a button to open the door. Of course, you’d put my kids out of business.  (We pay them 25 cents for each opening…) — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

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Perhaps some type of conversion to an automatic garage door opener?

Garage door openers drive a sprocket that operates a circular chain. Some of the older units had a block on the chain that tripped a switch when the door was raised. This block could be adjusted to fine-tune the system. My Genie units do not have this. I assume (but do not know) that they simply pull the chain for a fixed distance (most doors are 7′ tall). So. Measure the distance you have to pull your chain to open the hangar door. Work out the ratio between that and 7′. Rig a reduction gear out of two appropriately sized pulleys and a belt and drive that from a chain driven by a garage door opener. You can probably use your existing chain pulley as one pulley in the reduction gear and mount the whole thing high on the wall. George Patterson      If you want to know God’s opinion of money, just look at the people      he gives it to.

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Here’s a silly question:  Is there any way to convert a t-hangar’s manually opening bi-fold door to a motorized one?   I just rented a t-hangar that uses a circular chain hanging off a large pulley near the top of the hangar to control the door.  The chain must be pulled thirty to forty times to fully open or close the bi-fold door.   Perhaps some type of conversion to an automatic garage door opener? Has anyone ever done anything like this?

This site will give you an idea of how some mfg’s do it http://bifold.com/safety/electrical.cfm Doordoc www.DoorsAndOpeners.com Have seen many doors like this in our area but I personally have never installed or worked on this type of door.

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Garage door openers drive a sprocket that operates a circular chain. Some of the older units had a block on the chain that tripped a switch when the door was raised. This block could be adjusted to fine-tune the system. My Genie units do not have this. I assume (but do not know) that they simply pull the chain for a fixed distance (most doors are 7′ tall). So. Measure the distance you have to pull your chain to open the hangar door. Work out the ratio between that and 7′. Rig a reduction gear out of two appropriately sized pulleys and a belt and drive that from a chain driven by a garage door opener. You can probably use your existing chain pulley as one pulley in the reduction gear and mount the whole thing high on the wall.

Thanks, George.  I might just try this project. — Peter

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Of course, you’d put my kids out of business.  (We pay them 25 cents for each opening…)

25 cents?  Wow, that cheap labor.  :) — Peter

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Garage door openers drive a sprocket that operates a circular chain. Some of the older units had a block on the chain that tripped a switch when the door was raised. This block could be adjusted to fine-tune the system. My Genie units do not have this. I assume (but do not know) that they simply pull the chain for a fixed distance (most doors are 7′ tall).

They have essentially the same system, except that the block has been replaced by an analog inside the opener.  A worm drive moves a block back and forth, that triggers switches at either end of the range of movement. One end tells the opener when it’s done opening, the other tells it when it’s done closing. As with the older units, the end result is that the opener simply pulls the chain for a fixed distance.  In the case of the older units, the distance is set by the block, in the newer units this is adjustable (within a small range) by a setting that affects the exact position of the ends of the internal mechanism. So. Measure the distance you have to pull your chain to open the hangar door. Work out the ratio between that and 7′. Rig a reduction gear out of two appropriately sized pulleys and a belt and drive that from a chain driven by a garage door opener.

Some problems I see with that:     * You will want to ensure that the mechanism inside the opener is up to the task.  The garage door opener I’ve had open has a nylon worm drive to turn the main sprocket for the chain.  It wears out even under normal garage use, with a counter-spring to help reduce the forces involved.  Even if the hangar door is counter-weighted somehow, there may be more friction with the larger door.  It may be a lot to ask of little plastic pieces.     * The opener has a motor speed sensor that tells it when the thing is getting bogged down too much.  Because its main purpose is to avoid someone getting crushed by the door, it’s very sensitive.  The sensitivity can be adjusted somewhat, but probably not enough to account for a significant difference in force required.     * To make matters worse, in combination with the above issues, a reduction gear that increases the effective travel of the opener is necessarily going to increase the force that the opener is required to provide.     * Finally, using a belt and pulley system for the reduction gear may result in the belt slipping.  If it slips only at the very beginning of the door movement, and it slips exactly the same amount when opening as when closing, this might be okay.  But otherwise, it will throw the system out of adjustment. I would say that with a large enough (i.e. expensive enough) garage door opener, the above issues may not be a problem.  But then you may start finding that you’d have been better off just designing a custom-made opener mechanism from scratch.  Electric motors aren’t that expensive, and the rest is just a sprocket, switches and wiring, and possibly a new chain (depending on what kind of "chain" is currently used with the manual opening system). Pete

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Worst Jokes At Oshkosh

Question:

As for Lucas the Prince of Darkness, I was slightly concerned when I lifted the hood of my Audi to find it packed with Lucas electronics. So far, they haven’t actually failed…

What happened to the BONNET?  <g Cheers, Barnyard BOb –

Response:

I’ve been to the UK for fairly long business trips 3 times, and was astounded at how many people there drink Bud when there are so many wonderful ales.  Can’t stand the stuff myself.

I used to live in Australia and notice the same thing.  Some of the best brews in the world available, and the yuppies were often seen with a Bud in hand.  Oddly though, I think during the two years I lived there I saw about half a dozen drinking Fosters. Mark Hickey

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As for Lucas the Prince of Darkness, I was slightly concerned when I lifted the hood of my Audi to find it packed with Lucas electronics. So far, they haven’t actually failed… What happened to the BONNET?  <g

Perhaps his Audi is a convertible. Del Rawlins–   Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website: http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

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Just shows you the power of advertising.  There is no beer better than a Wadsworth XXXX fresh from the pump at cellar temperature, but that’s considered "local beer" in the UK.  Perfect, but the "imported stuff" must be better, TV tels them so.  CAMRA did a lot to wake people up in the 70’s bless ‘em. The problem here in the US is finding somewhere that serves ale that isn’t too cold.  Bass, Bodington’s, or any of the excellent US ales taste just like Bud when ice cold.  Ugh.  We seem determined to standardize beer temperature like the taste of what we call "beer" (Bud, Miller, Coors, etc.) it all tastes exactly the same, because most of the "Joe Six-Packs" out there want it that way. — Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways) I don’t have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love America

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been to the UK for fairly long business trips 3 times, and was astounded at how many people there drink Bud when there are so many wonderful ales.  Can’t stand the stuff myself. I used to live in Australia and notice the same thing.  Some of the best brews in the world available, and the yuppies were often seen with a Bud in hand.  Oddly though, I think during the two years I lived there I saw about half a dozen drinking Fosters. Mark Hickey

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The problem here in the US is finding somewhere that serves ale that isn’t too cold.  Bass, Bodington’s, or any of the excellent US ales taste just like Bud when ice cold.  Ugh.  We seem determined to standardize beer temperature like the taste of what we call "beer" (Bud, Miller, Coors, etc.) it all tastes exactly the same, because most of the "Joe Six-Packs" out there want it that way.

Anybody that says Bud tastes exactly like Miller doesn’t know beer.

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I’ve been to the UK for fairly long business trips 3 times, and was astounded at how many people there drink Bud when there are so many wonderful ales.  Can’t stand the stuff myself.

My economics prof claimed that American beer companies were the best marketing success story there was. He said that, prior to the 50s, nearly every city with a population over about 30,000 had at least one local brewery. By 1965, however, advertising had convinced most people that nothing made outside of Milwaukee was worth drinking, and nearly all of the small breweries disappeared. They’ve been creeping back since. George Patterson      If you want to know God’s opinion of money, just look at the people      he gives it to.

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Seriously, it’s because the beer actually tastes of something (all you get with ice cold lager is the taste of the CO2 and alcohol and not much else).

In a country that favors drinking the likes of "Bud Light" — would you expect anything else? Shoot, if you were to warm a glass of Bud to room temperature you’d soon realize what a skunky glass of swill you were drinking.  Thus, it’s best to keep it really, REALLY cold. And actually, on a really hot, sticky day, an ice cold glass of Bud/Miller/Pabst/Grain Belt/Schlitz/Hamm’s/Coors ain’t bad.  It just ain’t beer. (BTW: Considering the hardships endured to fetch beer at OSH, we ended up with a nice collection of mostly good microbrews at the rec.aviation party. Good job, people!) — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seriously, it’s because the beer actually tastes of something (all you get with ice cold lager is the taste of the CO2 and alcohol and not much else). In a country that favors drinking the likes of "Bud Light" — would you expect anything else? Shoot, if you were to warm a glass of Bud to room temperature you’d soon realize what a skunky glass of swill you were drinking.  Thus, it’s best to keep it really, REALLY cold. And actually, on a really hot, sticky day, an ice cold glass of Bud/Miller/Pabst/Grain Belt/Schlitz/Hamm’s/Coors ain’t bad.  It just ain’t beer. (BTW: Considering the hardships endured to fetch beer at OSH, we ended up with a nice collection of mostly good microbrews at the rec.aviation party. Good job, people!)

I’ve been to the UK for fairly long business trips 3 times, and was astounded at how many people there drink Bud when there are so many wonderful ales.  Can’t stand the stuff myself. Mike Mike Patterson Please remove the spamtrap to email me. "I always wanted to be somebody. I should have been more specific…"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now for a Brit joke.  Why do Brits drink warm beer?  Lucas refrigerators. Seriously, it’s because the beer actually tastes of something (all you get with ice cold lager is the taste of the CO2 and alcohol and not much else). Real ales have very varied and complex tastes. If you chill them too much you don’t actually taste anything. (As the poster says in our local pub, "What’s the matter lager boy? Afraid you might taste something?". This goes for American real ales too. There are quite a few of them about. When I lived in Houston, our local Albertson’s had quite a good selection. Many were best enjoyed at room temperature. As for Lucas the Prince of Darkness, I was slightly concerned when I lifted the hood of my Audi to find it packed with Lucas electronics. So far, they haven’t actually failed… — Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man

I’m not a beer drinker but I used to ride BSAs and Nortons.  I have to admit that’s an old joke and I’m sure I heard it over 20 years ago.  It’s good to hear that Lucas has gotten there act together…  ;o)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In Vegas, upon learning that I was from Canada, the barmaid told me a joke (I think What’s the difference between a Canadian and a Canoe? A Canoe tips! And she was looking for a tip? Don’t they teach Diplomacy 101 over there? :):) So what did she have to lose? ;^) So – having told you a Canadian joke, that qualifies me to tell one American joke. If a couple from the Ozarks move to San Francisco and get a divorce, are they still legally brother and sister? In San Francisco it depends on whether the hormone treatments are finished yet.

Seems more like a California joke than Amreican, Bruce. Richard

Response:

Weir’s Law: The probability of Jim telling any specific joke during one of his forums at Oshkosh is directly proportional to the square of the amount of groans elicited by that joke at a preliminary joke screening. – J.O.- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Herewith my nominations for the three worst jokes told at Oshkosh: 1.  John Kerry goes into a bar for a beer.  The bartender comes over and says, "Why the long face?" 2.  Two antennas had been on the top of a Cessna for twenty years when they decided to get married.  The wedding wasn’t much, but the reception was great. 3.  There is now a Canadian version of the RV-6.  It is called the RV-6A? (eh?) And I told them ALL during my forums  {;-) Jim Jim Weir    (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup) VP Eng RST   Pres. Cyberchapter   EAA Tech. Counselor

Response:

I have an American joke for you.  Why is a southern divorce like a hurricane?  Anyway you look at it somebody is going to loose a trailer. Now for a Brit joke.  Why do Brits drink warm beer?  Lucas refrigerators. Last and certainly least a bad Canadian joke.  Why do Canadians do it doggy style?  So they can both watch the hock game eh.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In Vegas, upon learning that I was from Canada, the barmaid told me a joke (I think What’s the difference between a Canadian and a Canoe? A Canoe tips! And she was looking for a tip? Don’t they teach Diplomacy 101 over there? :):) So – having told you a Canadian joke, that qualifies me to tell one American joke. If a couple from the Ozarks move to San Francisco and get a divorce, are they still legally brother and sister? But I’m actually a Brit – living in Canada, so I can tell aBrit joke as well. Like the British upper class couple who landed in New York and they saw a sign which said Aliens to the left, US Citizens to the right. and they said, Excuse us, we’re British. Which way do we go? I’ll leave it there – while I’m still alive :):) Tony — Tony Roberts PP-ASEL VFR OTT Night Almost Instrument Cessna 172H C-GICE Jim, You know how Canada was named?  They couldn’t come up with a good name, so they drew letters out of a bag. First letter out:  C (eh?) Second letter out: N (eh?) Third letter out:  D (eh?) There you have it. Dean Herewith my nominations for the three worst jokes told at Oshkosh: 1.  John Kerry goes into a bar for a beer.  The bartender comes over and says, "Why the long face?" 2.  Two antennas had been on the top of a Cessna for twenty years when they decided to get married.  The wedding wasn’t much, but the reception was great. 3.  There is now a Canadian version of the RV-6.  It is called the RV-6A? (eh?) And I told them ALL during my forums  {;-) Jim Jim Weir    (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup) VP Eng RST   Pres. Cyberchapter   EAA Tech. Counselor

Response:

Now for a Brit joke.  Why do Brits drink warm beer?  Lucas refrigerators.

Seriously, it’s because the beer actually tastes of something (all you get with ice cold lager is the taste of the CO2 and alcohol and not much else). Real ales have very varied and complex tastes. If you chill them too much you don’t actually taste anything. (As the poster says in our local pub, "What’s the matter lager boy? Afraid you might taste something?". This goes for American real ales too. There are quite a few of them about. When I lived in Houston, our local Albertson’s had quite a good selection. Many were best enjoyed at room temperature. As for Lucas the Prince of Darkness, I was slightly concerned when I lifted the hood of my Audi to find it packed with Lucas electronics. So far, they haven’t actually failed… — Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net "Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now for a Brit joke.  Why do Brits drink warm beer?  Lucas refrigerators. Seriously, it’s because the beer actually tastes of something (all you get with ice cold lager is the taste of the CO2 and alcohol and not much else). Real ales have very varied and complex tastes. If you chill them too much you don’t actually taste anything. (As the poster says in our local pub, "What’s the matter lager boy? Afraid you might taste something?". This goes for American real ales too. There are quite a few of them about. When I lived in Houston, our local Albertson’s had quite a good selection. Many were best enjoyed at room temperature. As for Lucas the Prince of Darkness, I was slightly concerned when I lifted the hood of my Audi to find it packed with Lucas electronics. So far, they haven’t actually failed…

Of course there is the ever present Lucas Three Position Switch: 1. "Dim" 2. "Flicker" 3.  "Off."

Response:

As for Lucas the Prince of Darkness, I was slightly concerned when I lifted the hood of my Audi to find it packed with Lucas electronics. So far, they haven’t actually failed…

It’s one thing to have a failure in an Audi, quite another for an Airbus.  There are lots of Lucas contributions in the Airbus FBW system.  They seem to be successfully staying aloft in most cases.

Response:

Herewith my nominations for the three worst jokes told at Oshkosh: 1.  John Kerry goes into a bar for a beer.  The bartender comes over and says, "Why the long face?" 2.  Two antennas had been on the top of a Cessna for twenty years when they decided to get married.  The wedding wasn’t much, but the reception was great. 3.  There is now a Canadian version of the RV-6.  It is called the RV-6A? (eh?) And I told them ALL during my forums  {;-) Jim Jim Weir    (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup) VP Eng RST   Pres. Cyberchapter   EAA Tech. Counselor

Response:

Herewith my nominations for the three worst jokes told at Oshkosh:

So, Jim, do you know any funny jokes? — You cannot run Windows innocently.  Guilt of aiding & abetting, at the very least, is automatic.               — David P. Murphy

Response:

2.  Two antennas had been on the top of a Cessna for twenty years when they decided to get married.  The wedding wasn’t much, but the reception was

great. Hey, wait a minute — you HATED that joke when Ousterhout told it at the pool party! But you inflicted it on the forum, anyway?   Geez, you’re mean… — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination"

Response:

2.  Two antennas had been on the top of a Cessna for twenty years when they decided to get married.  The wedding wasn’t much, but the reception was great.

So, which was the director and which the reflector?

Response:

Jim, You know how Canada was named?  They couldn’t come up with a good name, so they drew letters out of a bag. First letter out:  C (eh?) Second letter out: N (eh?) Third letter out:  D (eh?) There you have it. Dean – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Herewith my nominations for the three worst jokes told at Oshkosh: 1.  John Kerry goes into a bar for a beer.  The bartender comes over and says, "Why the long face?" 2.  Two antennas had been on the top of a Cessna for twenty years when they decided to get married.  The wedding wasn’t much, but the reception was great. 3.  There is now a Canadian version of the RV-6.  It is called the RV-6A? (eh?) And I told them ALL during my forums  {;-) Jim Jim Weir    (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup) VP Eng RST   Pres. Cyberchapter   EAA Tech. Counselor

Response:

First letter out:  C (eh?) Second letter out: N (eh?) Third letter out:  D (eh?)

The joke on the south side was about the nosewheel RV-6’s being Canadian. RV-6-eh?

Response:

Hey, wait a minute — you HATED that joke when Ousterhout told it at the pool party!

Yeah, but then it was Ousterhout’s joke; at Osh it was Jim’s joke. Sorta like you hated your father’s car until he gave it to you. Then it was great. George Patterson      In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.      In Tennessee, it’s evangelism.

Response:

2.  Two antennas had been on the top of a Cessna for twenty years when they decided to get married.  The wedding wasn’t much, but the reception was great. So, which was the director and which the reflector?

He was the director, and she was the reflector… before they got married… then it changed… Best regards, Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard — Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer’at’frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/ C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 218 Young Eagles!

Response:

In Vegas, upon learning that I was from Canada, the barmaid told me a joke (I think What’s the difference between a Canadian and a Canoe? A Canoe tips! And she was looking for a tip? Don’t they teach Diplomacy 101 over there? :):) So – having told you a Canadian joke, that qualifies me to tell one American joke. If a couple from the Ozarks move to San Francisco and get a divorce, are they still legally brother and sister? But I’m actually a Brit – living in Canada, so I can tell aBrit joke as well. Like the British upper class couple who landed in New York and they saw a sign which said Aliens to the left, US Citizens to the right. and they said, Excuse us, we’re British. Which way do we go? I’ll leave it there – while I’m still alive :):) Tony — Tony Roberts PP-ASEL VFR OTT Night Almost Instrument Cessna 172H C-GICE – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim, You know how Canada was named?  They couldn’t come up with a good name, so they drew letters out of a bag. First letter out:  C (eh?) Second letter out: N (eh?) Third letter out:  D (eh?) There you have it. Dean Herewith my nominations for the three worst jokes told at Oshkosh: 1.  John Kerry goes into a bar for a beer.  The bartender comes over and says, "Why the long face?" 2.  Two antennas had been on the top of a Cessna for twenty years when they decided to get married.  The wedding wasn’t much, but the reception was great. 3.  There is now a Canadian version of the RV-6.  It is called the RV-6A? (eh?) And I told them ALL during my forums  {;-) Jim Jim Weir    (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup) VP Eng RST   Pres. Cyberchapter   EAA Tech. Counselor

Response:

In Vegas, upon learning that I was from Canada, the barmaid told me a joke (I think What’s the difference between a Canadian and a Canoe? A Canoe tips! And she was looking for a tip? Don’t they teach Diplomacy 101 over there? :):)

So what did she have to lose? ;^) So – having told you a Canadian joke, that qualifies me to tell one American joke. If a couple from the Ozarks move to San Francisco and get a divorce, are they still legally brother and sister?

In San Francisco it depends on whether the hormone treatments are finished yet. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But I’m actually a Brit – living in Canada, so I can tell aBrit joke as well. Like the British upper class couple who landed in New York and they saw a sign which said Aliens to the left, US Citizens to the right. and they said, Excuse us, we’re British. Which way do we go? I’ll leave it there – while I’m still alive :):) Tony — Tony Roberts PP-ASEL VFR OTT Night Almost Instrument Cessna 172H C-GICE

– Bruce A. Frank, Editor               "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL                                  | Publishing interesting material|                                  | on all aspects of alternative  |                                  | engines and homebuilt aircraft.|

Response:

We're back from Purrth (long)

Question:

The description of Vino’s welcome is great.

<snipped I’m happy to report that even though the trip to Perth was super stressful, we got everything accomplished that we went for and things with our Australian visa should be moving ahead nicely.  Dennis passed both of his exams and now has an Australian pilot licence.  YAY!  

<snipped Great news, Britta! Congrats The weather was really great while we were there, crisp days, quite warm in the sun, and cold at night.  It was nice not to be sweaty all the time and to actually be able to wear clothes.  

<snipped Hey, you’re Canadian and I can tell. I know exactly what you mean (and I’m looking forward to fall already) KLC

Response:

Hi Everyone! Well, we just got back home from our trip to Perth.  We actually got in last night, but ended up staying the night with our friends in Bangkok because they told us that a guy from the company the guy works for got killed on the

Welcome back Britta I’m glad things went well. You sure were busy. Suz  Macmoosette Thank Heavens There’s Only One =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=  =^..^=  =^..^= Waiting for inspiration. Please hold while I contemplate my navel. |__/| (=’:'=) (")_(")

Response:

Hi Everyone! Well, we just got back home from our trip to Perth.

Welcome back Britta.  We got in Sunday (yesterday) ourselves, and am now in the process or going through mail and re-organizing the bills.  YUK!!   But the trip was worth it. Am looking forward to seeing your pictures and reading more about your prospects in Australia. Pam S.

Response:

I’m so glad to hear everything went well! Best wishes, — Polonca & Soncek

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone! Well, we just got back home from our trip to Perth.  <snip

Response:

Thanks for the update. Congratulations to both of you! I’m very happy everything turned out ok for you guys. — Victor Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

Response:

Hi Everyone! Well, we just got back home from our trip to Perth.

Welcome home. I’m happy to read everything went well. — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone! Well, we just got back home from our trip to Perth.  We actually got in last night, but ended up staying the night with our friends in Bangkok because they told us that a guy from the company the guy works for got killed on the highway to our house one night last week.  So we figured that driving at night (and on a Saturday night at that) might not be such a good idea.  It was a hard decision to make though, because we were more than anxious to get back to our furry little buddy, Vino. Vino welcomed us back this morning with loud meows and a huge poof of fur which exploded from his body upon first contact.  His maid comes in twice a day to feed him, but I swear she doesn’t pet him.  He always sheds about 50% of his hair.  So I immediately took him outside on the lawn and gave him a good brushing while he happily munched on some grass and purred non stop. Later on, he helped us unpack and looked cute sitting on all our bags.  Now he is already back to his usual self, bugging me for his dinner 2 hours early. I’m happy to report that even though the trip to Perth was super stressful, we got everything accomplished that we went for and things with our Australian visa should be moving ahead nicely.  Dennis passed both of his exams and now has an Australian pilot licence.  YAY!  Actually, the booking of these tests proved to be more of a hassle than writing them.  Our stress level was right up when there were only 3 slots left to write the 2nd exam but we couldn’t even book it until the guy in Australia got email confirmation of Dennis’ Canadian licences from Transport Canada.  Turns out that the guy in charge in Canada is off on vacation and he left another guy in charge who was also on vacation.  How typical!  Anyway, we finally got it settled after staying up till 1 am, shivering in a phone booth, making calls to Vancouver.  Ugh. Dennis also had an aviation medical, ECG, audiogram, eye test, etc.  Getting appointments with all these doctors on short notice was hard but we called so many that eventually we got appointments at the times we needed. We’re also happy that we were able to apply for and obtain 1 year visas for Thailand at the Thai consulate in Perth.  So now we don’t have to drive to the Cambodia border every month On the Sunday after we arrived there, we got together with Helen Wheels again.  We met her last year when we were there and naturally were looking forward to seeing her again.  So we headed out to her house where we were able to meet Simon and Arthur out in the yard.  The other cats were a bit shy, but Simon was just looking to curl up in a sunny spot, and Arthur turned out to be quite a love slut after some initial shyness.  We drove to a really nice park and went for a bit of a hike.  It was a beautiful day out and I got a few pictures.  Afterwards, we had lunch at a local pub.  A great time was had by all, but unfortunately we had to go after lunch so that Dennis could get back to his books and study some more for his last exam. After Dennis passed his final exam, we were really happy so we bought a case of beer and a huge box of cookies for the guys at Jandakot Helicopters in Perth who had let him study and use their computer in their briefing room for the previous week.  After that we headed off to meet with the migration agency that we’re hiring to take care of our visa process for us.  Things went well with them and it turns out that there are actually several different options of applying.  So they will apply for every avenue that is open to us and things look good that at least one of them will work out. I’m going to make another posting in a separate thread because I need some help and advice from the Australians of this NG. Anyway, so after all that business was done, we were completely elated and proceeded to have a late night at the pub.  Unfortunately, our heads didn’t feel so great the next morning, when we were heading out to Margaret River. Oh well, we should have known that would happen.  We got to Margaret River mid-day on Wednesday and it was even more beautiful than we’d remembered.  I don’t know what it is about that place, but we just love it sooooo much there.  It is picture perfect, like a child’s story book.  We saw huge herds of kangaroos grazing on fields, and these small black cows with long fuzzy fur that I found just adorable.  Saw lots of sheep too of course and even a few emus.  I got a ton of pictures that I’m going to have to go through in the next week, I’ll put some up in our Yahoo album and post a notice here. On Thursday, we proceeded to tour some wineries in the area and did a bunch of wine tastings, that was great  We even bought 6 bottles of wine that we managed to sneak back to Thailand in our suitcases with no problems.  The only unfortunate thing was that it seems like real estate prices have risen since last year and are pretty much going to continue to rise steadily there.  Which isn’t so good since we really won’t be ready to buy anything until we have our visa in a year or so. On Friday we went to the beach and walked around.  There were a lot of shark hazard signs on the beaches because a guy got killed by a great white just a few days before we got there.  But there were already a few brave souls back out surfing.  It seemed cold but the waves were humungous. The weather was really great while we were there, crisp days, quite warm in the sun, and cold at night.  It was nice not to be sweaty all the time and to actually be able to wear clothes.  I did get a nasty cold as soon as we arrived, but I guess that was to be expected.  We ended up investing $20 in a space heater (a brilliant idea by yours truly, which is why Dennis pays me the big bucks and that really warmed our hostel room up and was definitely worthwhile.  Especially since it made getting out of bed in the morning actually feasible.  Now we are back in the heat, pants, long sleeved shirts, jackets and socks already packed away until our next foray into colder climes.

We love uour travelogs!  Purrs for Vino.

Response:

Britta, sounds like everything worked out for the best all around. I am so glad for you, Dennis and Vino. The best of luck on everything else. Keep us updated. Jazz & his mama — Irulan from the stars we came, to the stars we return from now until the end of time

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone! Well, we just got back home from our trip to Perth.  We actually got in last night, but ended up staying the night with our friends in Bangkok because they told us that a guy from the company the guy works for got killed on the highway to our house one night last week.  So we figured that driving at night (and on a Saturday night at that) might not be such a good idea.  It was a hard decision to make though, because we were more than anxious to get back to our furry little buddy, Vino. Vino welcomed us back this morning with loud meows and a huge poof of fur which exploded from his body upon first contact.  His maid comes in twice a day to feed him, but I swear she doesn’t pet him.  He always sheds about 50% of his hair.  So I immediately took him outside on the lawn and gave him a good brushing while he happily munched on some grass and purred non stop. Later on, he helped us unpack and looked cute sitting on all our bags. Now he is already back to his usual self, bugging me for his dinner 2 hours early. I’m happy to report that even though the trip to Perth was super stressful, we got everything accomplished that we went for and things with our Australian visa should be moving ahead nicely.  Dennis passed both of his exams and now has an Australian pilot licence.  YAY!  Actually, the booking of these tests proved to be more of a hassle than writing them.  Our stress level was right up when there were only 3 slots left to write the 2nd exam but we couldn’t even book it until the guy in Australia got email confirmation of Dennis’ Canadian licences from Transport Canada.  Turns out that the guy in charge in Canada is off on vacation and he left another guy in charge who was also on vacation.  How typical!  Anyway, we finally got it settled after staying up till 1 am, shivering in a phone booth, making calls to Vancouver.  Ugh. Dennis also had an aviation medical, ECG, audiogram, eye test, etc. Getting appointments with all these doctors on short notice was hard but we called so many that eventually we got appointments at the times we needed. We’re also happy that we were able to apply for and obtain 1 year visas for Thailand at the Thai consulate in Perth.  So now we don’t have to drive to the Cambodia border every month On the Sunday after we arrived there, we got together with Helen Wheels again.  We met her last year when we were there and naturally were looking forward to seeing her again.  So we headed out to her house where we were able to meet Simon and Arthur out in the yard.  The other cats were a bit shy, but Simon was just looking to curl up in a sunny spot, and Arthur turned out to be quite a love slut after some initial shyness.  We drove to a really nice park and went for a bit of a hike.  It was a beautiful day out and I got a few pictures.  Afterwards, we had lunch at a local pub.  A great time was had by all, but unfortunately we had to go after lunch so that Dennis could get back to his books and study some more for his last exam. After Dennis passed his final exam, we were really happy so we bought a case of beer and a huge box of cookies for the guys at Jandakot Helicopters in Perth who had let him study and use their computer in their briefing room for the previous week.  After that we headed off to meet with the migration agency that we’re hiring to take care of our visa process for us.  Things went well with them and it turns out that there are actually several different options of applying.  So they will apply for every avenue that is open to us and things look good that at least one of them will work out. I’m going to make another posting in a separate thread because I need some help and advice from the Australians of this NG. Anyway, so after all that business was done, we were completely elated and proceeded to have a late night at the pub.  Unfortunately, our heads didn’t feel so great the next morning, when we were heading out to Margaret River. Oh well, we should have known that would happen.  We got to Margaret River mid-day on Wednesday and it was even more beautiful than we’d remembered. I don’t know what it is about that place, but we just love it sooooo much there.  It is picture perfect, like a child’s story book.  We saw huge herds of kangaroos grazing on fields, and these small black cows with long fuzzy fur that I found just adorable.  Saw lots of sheep too of course and even a few emus.  I got a ton of pictures that I’m going to have to go through in the next week, I’ll put some up in our Yahoo album and post a notice here. On Thursday, we proceeded to tour some wineries in the area and did a bunch of wine tastings, that was great  We even bought 6 bottles of wine that we managed to sneak back to Thailand in our suitcases with no problems. The only unfortunate thing was that it seems like real estate prices have risen since last year and are pretty much going to continue to rise steadily there.  Which isn’t so good since we really won’t be ready to buy anything until we have our visa in a year or so. On Friday we went to the beach and walked around.  There were a lot of shark hazard signs on the beaches because a guy got killed by a great white just a few days before we got there.  But there were already a few brave souls back out surfing.  It seemed cold but the waves were humungous. The weather was really great while we were there, crisp days, quite warm in the sun, and cold at night.  It was nice not to be sweaty all the time and to actually be able to wear clothes.  I did get a nasty cold as soon as we arrived, but I guess that was to be expected.  We ended up investing $20 in a space heater (a brilliant idea by yours truly, which is why Dennis pays me the big bucks and that really warmed our hostel room up and was definitely worthwhile.  Especially since it made getting out of bed in the morning actually feasible.  Now we are back in the heat, pants, long sleeved shirts, jackets and socks already packed away until our next foray into colder climes. — Britta Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that’s covered in fur! Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

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Hi Everyone! Well, we just got back home from our trip to Perth.  We actually got in last night, but ended up staying the night with our friends in Bangkok because they told us that a guy from the company the guy works for got killed on the highway to our house one night last week.  So we figured that driving at night (and on a Saturday night at that) might not be such a good idea.  It was a hard decision to make though, because we were more than anxious to get back to our furry little buddy, Vino. Vino welcomed us back this morning with loud meows and a huge poof of fur which exploded from his body upon first contact.  His maid comes in twice a day to feed him, but I swear she doesn’t pet him.  He always sheds about 50% of his hair.  So I immediately took him outside on the lawn and gave him a good brushing while he happily munched on some grass and purred non stop. Later on, he helped us unpack and looked cute sitting on all our bags.  Now he is already back to his usual self, bugging me for his dinner 2 hours early. I’m happy to report that even though the trip to Perth was super stressful, we got everything accomplished that we went for and things with our Australian visa should be moving ahead nicely.  Dennis passed both of his exams and now has an Australian pilot licence.  YAY!  Actually, the booking of these tests proved to be more of a hassle than writing them.  Our stress level was right up when there were only 3 slots left to write the 2nd exam but we couldn’t even book it until the guy in Australia got email confirmation of Dennis’ Canadian licences from Transport Canada.  Turns out that the guy in charge in Canada is off on vacation and he left another guy in charge who was also on vacation.  How typical!  Anyway, we finally got it settled after staying up till 1 am, shivering in a phone booth, making calls to Vancouver.  Ugh. Dennis also had an aviation medical, ECG, audiogram, eye test, etc.  Getting appointments with all these doctors on short notice was hard but we called so many that eventually we got appointments at the times we needed. We’re also happy that we were able to apply for and obtain 1 year visas for Thailand at the Thai consulate in Perth.  So now we don’t have to drive to the Cambodia border every month On the Sunday after we arrived there, we got together with Helen Wheels again.  We met her last year when we were there and naturally were looking forward to seeing her again.  So we headed out to her house where we were able to meet Simon and Arthur out in the yard.  The other cats were a bit shy, but Simon was just looking to curl up in a sunny spot, and Arthur turned out to be quite a love slut after some initial shyness.  We drove to a really nice park and went for a bit of a hike.  It was a beautiful day out and I got a few pictures.  Afterwards, we had lunch at a local pub.  A great time was had by all, but unfortunately we had to go after lunch so that Dennis could get back to his books and study some more for his last exam. After Dennis passed his final exam, we were really happy so we bought a case of beer and a huge box of cookies for the guys at Jandakot Helicopters in Perth who had let him study and use their computer in their briefing room for the previous week.  After that we headed off to meet with the migration agency that we’re hiring to take care of our visa process for us.  Things went well with them and it turns out that there are actually several different options of applying.  So they will apply for every avenue that is open to us and things look good that at least one of them will work out. I’m going to make another posting in a separate thread because I need some help and advice from the Australians of this NG. Anyway, so after all that business was done, we were completely elated and proceeded to have a late night at the pub.  Unfortunately, our heads didn’t feel so great the next morning, when we were heading out to Margaret River. Oh well, we should have known that would happen.  We got to Margaret River mid-day on Wednesday and it was even more beautiful than we’d remembered.  I don’t know what it is about that place, but we just love it sooooo much there.  It is picture perfect, like a child’s story book.  We saw huge herds of kangaroos grazing on fields, and these small black cows with long fuzzy fur that I found just adorable.  Saw lots of sheep too of course and even a few emus.  I got a ton of pictures that I’m going to have to go through in the next week, I’ll put some up in our Yahoo album and post a notice here. On Thursday, we proceeded to tour some wineries in the area and did a bunch of wine tastings, that was great  We even bought 6 bottles of wine that we managed to sneak back to Thailand in our suitcases with no problems.  The only unfortunate thing was that it seems like real estate prices have risen since last year and are pretty much going to continue to rise steadily there.  Which isn’t so good since we really won’t be ready to buy anything until we have our visa in a year or so. On Friday we went to the beach and walked around.  There were a lot of shark hazard signs on the beaches because a guy got killed by a great white just a few days before we got there.  But there were already a few brave souls back out surfing.  It seemed cold but the waves were humungous. The weather was really great while we were there, crisp days, quite warm in the sun, and cold at night.  It was nice not to be sweaty all the time and to actually be able to wear clothes.  I did get a nasty cold as soon as we arrived, but I guess that was to be expected.  We ended up investing $20 in a space heater (a brilliant idea by yours truly, which is why Dennis pays me the big bucks and that really warmed our hostel room up and was definitely worthwhile.  Especially since it made getting out of bed in the morning actually feasible.  Now we are back in the heat, pants, long sleeved shirts, jackets and socks already packed away until our next foray into colder climes. — Britta Sandpaper kisses, a cuddle and a purr. I have an alarm clock that’s covered in fur! Check out pictures of Vino at: http://photos.yahoo.com/badwilson click on the Vino album

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