What does TSO'd mean?
Question:
Technical standard order. The units design has been test over and extended environmental range Shock, vibration, tempurature, EMI, RFI ect. This ads cost and is required for part 135 and 121 operators in most cases. I’ve seen this term all over when shopping for avionics. What does the term stand for and what is it’s significance? Please email response.
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Doesn’t this also mean that the equipment can be installed without it being a modification which may require a form 337 to be filed?
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Doesn’t this also mean that the equipment can be installed without it being a modification which may require a form 337 to be filed?
no. — Bob Noel aka Kobyashi Maru my views are my own not MITRE’s (why use a disclaimer when people are
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Doesn’t this also mean that the equipment can be installed without it being a modification which may require a form 337 to be filed?
No. A TSO doesn’t mean anything in itself. However, many of the FSDO’s consider a TSO to be "data acceptable to the adminstrator" and sufficient information for your 337. But, if what you’re doing is considered a major modification, a 337 has to be filed no matter what you’re doing (STC, repairs, TSO’d equipment…). The only gray area is: 1. What is a major modification (a TSO or STC doesn’t alter this definition). 2. What is data acceptable to the administrator.
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-Doesn’t this also mean that the equipment can be installed -without it being a modification which may require a form -337 to be filed? Absolutely not. See Rod Farlee’s excellent dissertation on this thread from a couple of days ago. Jim Jim Weir VP Engineering | You bet your sweet patootie I speak for the RST Engineering | company. If I don’t, ain’t nobody gonna. Grass Valley CA 95945 | http://www.rst-engr.com | AR Adv WB6BHI–FCC 1st phone—Cessna 182A N73CQ
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: [snip] : Try to buy a TSO’d DME, VFR GPS, GPS/COM or intercom and you’ll : find there are no TSOs for these items. : almost. The last I looked (back in Nov ‘94) the KN62 DME : was TSO’d. : — : Bob Noel : why do people over load their : webpages with unnecessary gifs? My DME, a Narco DME 195 is the TSO’d version as well. Ron Magnus
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Looking up in my handy reference material, as of this morning, the Apollo 2001 GPS, KA 134 audio panel, KN 62A DME, KN 63 DME, KLN 35A GPS and the KLX 135A GPSCOMM are all TSO’d units. Chuck-VAY
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Looking up in my handy reference material, as of this morning, the Apollo 2001 GPS, KA 134 audio panel, KN 62A DME, KN 63 DME, KLN 35A GPS and the KLX 135A GPSCOMM are all TSO’d units. Chuck-VAY
It means Time Scince Overhaul…usually Hope this is of use to you.
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pearls of wisdom:
… are all TSO’d units. Chuck-VAY -It means Time Scince Overhaul…usually Oooh Nooo. TSO in this instance means that the unit was designed and built to an FAA document called a Technical Standard Order (TSO). Only part 121 (air carrier) aircraft are REQUIRED to use all-TSO equipment, so all it means to us puddlejumpers is that it was designed to a particular standard. Some argue that it means quality, others argue that it means spend money without return. I would point you to the thread going on right now in rec.aviation.homebuilt regarding TSO. TSO when referring to an article that has been on the airplane and in service for some time DOES mean Time Since Overhaul, but generally refers to engines, propellers, and other time-limited items. Jim Jim Weir VP Engineering | You bet your sweet patootie I speak for the RST Engineering | company. If I don’t, ain’t nobody gonna. Grass Valley CA 95945 | http://www.rst-engr.com | AR Adv WB6BHI–FCC 1st phone—Cessna 182A N73CQ
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| | Looking up in my handy reference material, as of this morning, the Apollo | 2001 GPS, KA 134 audio panel, KN 62A DME, KN 63 DME, KLN 35A GPS and the | KLX 135A GPSCOMM are all TSO’d units. Chuck-VAY | | | It means Time Scince Overhaul…usually | | Hope this is of use to you. After spamming the newsgroup about ten times (with the same message) M & R Aviation drops this bit of "wisdom" on us. Get a clue. Why would anyone do business with a company that first pisses off it’s customers, and then proves it’s stupidity isn’t an accident by providing this bit of "wisdom" Edward Zager
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| | Looking up in my handy reference material, as of this morning, the Apollo | 2001 GPS, KA 134 audio panel, KN 62A DME, KN 63 DME, KLN 35A GPS and the | KLX 135A GPSCOMM are all TSO’d units. Chuck-VAY | | | It means Time Scince Overhaul…usually | | Hope this is of use to you. | TSO also means, Technical Standard Order. This is normally associated with avionics and allows for FAA approval to build the given type of equipment, under a specific government standard. I believe the TSO’d refered to in the original post was Technical Standard Order. DeKevin Thornton C170a N1702D
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After spamming the newsgroup about ten times (with the same message) M & R Aviation drops this bit of "wisdom" on us. Get a clue. Why would anyone do business with a company that first pisses off it’s customers, and then proves it’s stupidity isn’t an accident by providing this bit of "wisdom"
To his credit, he *is* posting from the UK, where they probably don’t have Technical Standard Orders, but might have Time Since Overhaul for all I know. Of course, from the context of the original question, I’d think it was obvious the "TSO" didn’t refer to an overhaul issue, but it’s possible all he’s guilt of is not reading the question properly, as opposed to being a royal flaming idiot. Of course, I don’t really know…wouldn’t want to rule out RFI prematurely, would we? :) Peter Duniho N1404Y, Lake Renegade Redmond, WA for they shall let in the light." — J.C.
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Looking up in my handy reference material, as of this morning, the Apollo 2001 GPS, KA 134 audio panel, KN 62A DME, KN 63 DME, KLN 35A GPS and the KLX 135A GPSCOMM are all TSO’d units. Chuck-VAY
Short answer is a TSO is required for installation on a certificated aircraft. Your are essentially modifying the aircraft
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: Short answer is a TSO is required for installation on a certificated : aircraft. Your are essentially modifying the aircraft Not!
According to three A&Ps with whom I spoke on this issue, the first poster is correct. A TSO or an STC is required for installation on a certificated aircraft. | To get the attention of a large animal, be it an | elephant or a bureaucracy, it helps to know what George Patterson – | part of it feels pain. Be very sure, though, that | you want its full attention. | Kelvin Throop
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: Short answer is a TSO is required for installation on a certificated : aircraft. Your are essentially modifying the aircraft Not! — Jay _/ Jay Masino and Teresa Larson `67 Piper Cherokee _/ _/ digital H/W design Database Design N4269J _/ _/ systems engineering Sybase and Oracle RDBMS __!__ _/ _/ UNIX and network admin UNIX and VAX _____(_)_____ _/ _/ C programming C programming ! ! ! _/ _/ Visit our homepage… http://www2.ari.net/jmasino/ _/
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: Short answer is a TSO is required for installation on a certificated : aircraft. Your are essentially modifying the aircraft Not! According to three A&Ps with whom I spoke on this issue, the first poster is correct. A TSO or an STC is required for installation on a certificated aircraft.
nit picking alert… then the first poster isn’t entirely correct. You just said a "TSO or an STC" is required, the first poster said only that a TSO is required. btw – the KN64 DME isn’t TSO’d and guess what, that DME is in a lot of part 91 airplanes. — Bob Noel why do people over load their webpages with unnecessary gifs?
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According to three A&Ps with whom I spoke on this issue, the first poster is correct. A TSO or an STC is required for installation on a certificated aircraft.
No, the first poster, and your A&P’s are incorrect. A TSO is not a necessary nor sufficent for installation of equipement on aircraft. In order to make a MAJOR MODIFICATION (what that entails is another boondoggle of definitions) the modification must be on the original type certificate of the aircraft, must be covered by an STC, or must get a field approval. When you apply for a field approval you must provide "DATA ACCEPATBLE TO THE ADMINISTRATOR." For some things, a TSO will suffice as acceptable data, for other things a TSO isn’t required, and for others a TSO in itself is not by itself good enough. You have to know: 1. What the modification is. 2. What the Type Certificate, STC’s and TSO’s cover. 3. And UNFORTUANTELY: What this weeks local FSDO weenies mood is as to what constitutes acceptible data.
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Ron: Through first hand experience with the local FSDO, (PHL), I can affirm you are correct on all points. Mainly though, what is their mood swing this week going to be? Chuck-VAY
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wisdom:
- TSO stands for Technical Standard Order. -This is correct, but the rest of this posting is not. -To install non-TSO’d equipment, there is no requirement for an STC. -A 377 "Major Alteration" form is needed only if the installation -requires structural modifications to the airplane or fabrication -of a mounting tray. Otherwise, it requires only a logbook entry -by a radio shop or A&P with avionics inspection authorization that -the physical installation conforms to AC 43 standard practices, -and noting any change in aircraft weight and balance. Brother Farlee got this EXACTLY, PRECISELY correct. Rod, good work!! Jim Jim Weir VP Engineering | You bet your sweet patootie I speak for the RST Engineering | company. If I don’t, ain’t nobody gonna. Grass Valley CA 95945 | http://www.rst-engr.com | AR Adv WB6BHI–FCC 1st phone—Cessna 182A N73CQ
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[snip] Try to buy a TSO’d DME, VFR GPS, GPS/COM or intercom and you’ll find there are no TSOs for these items.
almost. The last I looked (back in Nov ‘94) the KN62 DME was TSO’d. — Bob Noel why do people over load their webpages with unnecessary gifs?
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: "What does TSO’d mean? I’ve seen this term all over when : shopping for : avionics. What does the term stand for and what is it’s : significance. : TSO stands for Technical Standard Order. It indicates that the : product complies <SNIP : Bottom Line: If you intend to operate an Airworthy (ie legal) : airplane in the Normal : Utility, or Aerobatic categories, you will need to buy TSO : versions of equipment : if you just want to do a normal install. The other versions : would require analysis and : test to obtain a Supplemental Type Certificate for : installation. The market for Non-TSO : equipment is Experimental airplanes where approval is not : required. Part 91 operators DO NOT have to use TSO’d equipment, except for certain exceptions, like IFR GPS or RNAV. There’s no problem installing, for example, an non-TSO’d NAVCOM in your plane, if you only operating Part 91. – Jay _/ Jay Masino and Teresa Larson `67 Piper Cherokee _/ _/ digital H/W design Database Design N4269J _/ _/ systems engineering Sybase and Oracle RDBMS __!__ _/ _/ UNIX and network admin UNIX and VAX _____(_)_____ _/ _/ C programming C programming ! ! ! _/ _/ Visit our homepage… http://www2.ari.net:80/home3/jmasino/ _/
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I’ve seen this term all over when shopping for avionics. What does the term stand for and what is it’s significance? Please email response.
Never mind…I found out.
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TSO stands for Technical Standard Order.
This is correct, but the rest of this posting is not. The FCC specifies operational requirements for most avionics. FAA TSO specs are environmental (temperature, humidity, vibration, shock), and in some cases, such as IFR GPS, are operational. A TSO has nothing to do with the manufacturing process (this is the concern of the FAA PMA, parts manufacturing approval, process). Try to buy a TSO’d DME, VFR GPS, GPS/COM or intercom and you’ll find there are no TSOs for these items. Also there is no requirement for TSOs for anything used for FAR Part 91 operations except the transponder and ELT. To install non-TSO’d equipment, there is no requirement for an STC. A 377 "Major Alteration" form is needed only if the installation requires structural modifications to the airplane or fabrication of a mounting tray. Otherwise, it requires only a logbook entry by a radio shop or A&P with avionics inspection authorization that the physical installation conforms to AC 43 standard practices, and noting any change in aircraft weight and balance. There are some requirements for TSO’d equipment on airliners in FAR 121, but there are many exceptions (DME, entertainment, etc). There is enough confusion among FAA FSDO inspectors over the new PMA requirements that some of them seem to be making up there own rules in this area, but let’s not make up our own! – Rod Farlee
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I’ve seen this term all over when shopping for avionics. What does the term stand for and what is it’s significance? Please email response.
Response:
"What does TSO’d mean? I’ve seen this term all over when shopping for avionics. What does the term stand for and what is it’s
significance. TSO stands for Technical Standard Order. It indicates that the product complies with a detailed "cookbook" of requirements for that type of product and that the manufacturer’s processes for manufacture are acceptable to the FAA. The TSO specifications are usually written by standards societies such as SAE or RTCA using both industry and government personnel. These are often published as a separate document and included in the TSO by reference. The significance of TSO is that the product is accepted as AIRWORTHY by the FAA without requiring any further approval. Installation on your airplane still must show that it performs its function and poses no problem to other systems, but this is a small task compared to proving overall Airwothiness. Bottom Line: If you intend to operate an Airworthy (ie legal) airplane in the Normal Utility, or Aerobatic categories, you will need to buy TSO versions of equipment if you just want to do a normal install. The other versions would require analysis and test to obtain a Supplemental Type Certificate for installation. The market for Non-TSO equipment is Experimental airplanes where approval is not required.
