Does the USAF discourage young flyers ?
Question:
I guess this controversy has popped up again so here I am. As a current AF instructor pilot I can tell you first hand from very recent experiences (today), student military pilots with civilian experience on the average have fewer problems during their training. Everything from talking on the radios to landing in a crosswind are much easier for the students with previous experience. Believe me I know. As the syllabus progresses, you notice that this edge tapers off with the introduction of aerobatics and formation because there isn’t much civilian training out there for that. However, your chances of being in training for these later stages is better when you already have the
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi. My young 14-year old son would love to learn how to fly, but currently he is hot over becoming a combat fighter pilot, and entering the Air Force Academy or the Naval Academy. He heard that kids who fly are sometimes not admitted because they may have learned "bad habits". Is there any truth to this? Do you recommend a 14 year old taking flying lessons, and would/could it hurt his chances to become a pilot in the Air Force Academy or Naval Flight School ? Thanks for any info…. — — Bill Peter http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/~peter/
Absolutely NOT. Actually, they LIKE to see applicants with some flying experience. It proves to them that the "kid" has at leasst some apptitude for flying and if nothing else, doesn’t get airsick. There will always be the "learning a bad habit" spiel. It’s certianly a possibility. The problem isn’t learning something "bad" it’s ones inability to change the habbit. That is purely up to the personality of the individual concerned. I was a licensed pilot before I was a licensed driver. I went through the Air Force ROTC program and got commissioned (1987). After a year of pilot training I did 7 more years of active duty (flew C-141 transports) and now I’m a Reservist flying C-5’s. I wish your son all the best and would be happy to respond to any of his questions/concerns……
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I’m an Air Force instructor in a Navy training squadron so I will add my two cents. The more flight experience the better!
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…entering the Air Force Academy or the Naval Academy. He heard that kids who fly are sometimes not admitted because they may have learned "bad habits". Is there any truth to this?
I can offer a personal experience….. In 1981, as I was departing college (engineering), I took the written tests required by the navy for flight school applicants — did rather well. Probably could be attributed to my COMM/INST/MEL. My local recruiter hooked me up with a Navy pilot that was making the recruiting tour; this flyer had a HUGE chip on his shoulder concerning civil pilots … something about military doing a different kind of flying (DUH!). I asked him if lift was generated differently on a military aircraft, or if he could explain how the interpretation of a TACAN differed from that of a VOR-DME. He got hostile and we abruptly ending our little social session. The local recruiter tried to salvage the situation, but I was EXTREMELY turned off of any future military flying by this experience. Summary: watch out for this kind of attitude among existing flyers. I likely met one of those lower 20th percentile guys and I let him influence me too much. Kent
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Bill, I would encourage your son getting flying experience. The more the better. I am an AF pilot who was a T-37 flight instructor early in my career. I also fly GA. My experience is that military flying training is much more regimented than civilian flying training. So long as your son doesn’t arrive at military pilot training with an "I’ve got all the answers attitude", any flying experience can’t help but benefit. Regards, Jim Brown
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He heard that kids who fly are sometimes not admitted because they may have learned "bad habits". Is there any truth to this?
Au contraire, everything I’ve heard says a candidate should have some flying experience…not that the services look for it so much, but the basic training a candidate undergoes is very rapid-paced so that very few people with no flying experience would be able to pass. I personally know a fellow aiming for Hondo who is taking lessons in a 172. Furthermore, if the candidate wants to go for fighter aircraft, having some unusual attitude experience (e.g. acrobatic training) would surely be a help, again, so they are not overwhelmed in the primary training.
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I would think that the USAF or Navy would WANT people with past flying experience. I started when I turned 15, and still am, and think that the Air Force would be more likely to accept me if I had a private pilots license. The worst that could happen is that he takes flying lessons and then you find out it might (even though I think it would be good) look bad on his application, you can just leave it out so they don’t know. Nothing wrong with that. As for being a combat fighter pilot of an F-22, it’s possible, but we all get dreams when we watch Top Gun (I love that movie). Keep in mind that the USAF has very hard standards that he must pass. Mostly academic, but also physical. Look it up on the web somewhere, you will find they have minimum amounts of athletic tests that must be passed, such as push ups (around 11) and sit-ups (something like 80-110 in two minutes). For academic, the more the populated your state, the higher the GPA needs to be. shoot for above 3.7 in an average state. Another note on why it would be better for your son to have piloting experience is because it takes the government around $1million (Or $10million, one of the two) of your tax dollars to train ONE pilot. So when the see on the appl. that he is a pilot, they will feel like they are not wasting their time and money with this new recrut. Just my two dollars. (Inflation) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi. My young 14-year old son would love to learn how to fly, but currently he is hot over becoming a combat fighter pilot, and entering the Air Force Academy or the Naval Academy. He heard that kids who fly are sometimes not admitted because they may have learned "bad habits". Is there any truth to this? Do you recommend a 14 year old taking flying lessons, and would/could it hurt his chances to become a pilot in the Air Force Academy or Naval Flight School ? Thanks for any info…. — — Bill Peter http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/~peter/
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Start flying now! At 14 he is a great age to learn about flying gliders. As he gets closer to 16, start working on that extra special 16th birthday present – - soloing a powered airplane! Having aviation experience is a definate plus for USAF or USN flying, but he must also have a competitive GPA to get the chance. I’d recommend a Private with Instrument rating. This is core of all flying and he can concentrate on learn the "military way" of flying once in training. Good luck and blue skies, Larry Gamble CPL/I/SEL/MEL/CFI/CFII – - – 310 driver – - – N1893H standard disclaimer… your actual milage may vary, always consult the POH first, ideas expressed here may not be same as those of other readers of this newsgroup. Caveat Emptor.
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Mr. Peter, Flying experience does help! It is a great lifetime hobby. However, like others have said before me, academics are THE NUMBER ONE interest of the military academies. I personally know both these facts to be true; I graduated from the USAFA in 1995. However I am not a pilot for the Air Force. And I believe what hurt me was my lack of flying experience. You see, during your second summer at the Academy, cadets are offered the opportunity to solo in a S-33 glider. Those few who show "cool hands" and demonstrate the ability to teach others are award the opportunity to become glider flight instructors at the Academy their last two years! Needless to say, well over 90% of these glider instructor pilots are chosen for AF pilot training. Because of the demands on these IPs, it forces them to be better academians. This is not to say that these are the only people chosen. During the senior year, all pilot eligible cadets can a course in advanced powered flight using the T-3 Firefly. The results of the courses, along with the academics and physical fitness of the cadets result in a "whole person" concept that is used by the senior leaders at the Academy to select the future fighter pilots. Speaking for myself (not the USAF), no sir, I do not believe the USAF discourages young flyers. In fact, that is what CAP was created to do. I would suggest that you explore that avenue as well (something I did not do). Of course, this is but one, if not unique flight path to follow. Good Luck to both of you, Blue Skies to you, 1Lt Angel Negron, USAF P.S. ALL USAF pilots go through the exact same initial training (9-10 months). Only then are individuals sent to specific airplane indoctrination (F-16, C-17, KC-10, etc.) I would think that the USAF or Navy would WANT people with past flying experience. I started when I turned 15, and still am, and think that the Air Force would be more likely to accept me if I had a private pilots
license. SNIP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – an average state. Another note on why it would be better for your son to have piloting experience is because it takes the government around $1million (Or $10million, one of the two) of your tax dollars to train ONE pilot. So when the see on the appl. that he is a pilot, they will feel like they are not wasting their time and money with this new recrut. Hi. My young 14-year old son would love to learn how to fly, but currently he is hot over becoming a combat fighter pilot, and entering the Air Force Academy or the Naval Academy. He heard that kids who fly are sometimes not admitted because they may have learned "bad habits". Is there any truth to this? Do you recommend a 14 year old taking flying lessons, and would/could it hurt his chances to become a pilot in the Air Force Academy or Naval Flight School ? Thanks for any info…. — — Bill Peter http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/~peter/
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I apologize for jumping into this thread late. I can’t speak for the Navy but after a 26 year career as an Air Force fighter pilot instructor and flight examiner it has been my observation that prior experience does NOT matter. During Air Force pilot training you either do it the way it should be done or you are washed out of the program. After completion of the pilot training program you either cut the mustard during each semi annual check flight or you bust the ride. Bust enough check rides and you are grounded. If grounded you will face a Flying Evaluation Board. IMHO some of those who had prior experience had it tougher during the primary and basic pilot training programs because they had an "attitude." The answer to the question in the thread title is "No, the USAF does not discourage young flyers." However, throughout the Air Force pilot training program, student pilots are purposely kept under a reasonable level of stress as they enter each unknown phase i.e., academics, transition, acrobatics, formation, instruments, navigation, and formation acrobatics. The purpose of this stress is to cull out those who are marginal in any particular phase. If you can’t cut it in training, you won’t cut it in combat. At age 14, an aviation enthusiast would be well advised to focus on his or her academic standing. The time will come to kick tires and light fires but there will never be another opportunity to go back and improve academic grades. An earlier post notwithstanding, if one is ever fortunate enough to fill out an application to enter the Air Force Academy and/or pilot training program, tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Aim High! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Start flying now! At 14 he is a great age to learn about flying gliders. As he gets closer to 16, start working on that extra special 16th birthday present – - soloing a
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Flying is a great profession that should be pursued on it’s own merits. The USAF Academy is another matter and should be treated on it’s own as well. The fact that you can do both and still get paid is the real kicker. Remember, if your son decides to go to the Academy, it has to be his decision. Those that go because of a family push are the ones that learn that lesson later and leave the Academy. A good well rounded student can make it past the mental and physical tasks. You need a huge reserve of will power to make it past the rest. When I went through they didn’t ask on the application about your flying status. I think it would be a great gift though. Paul USAFA ‘90 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would think that the USAF or Navy would WANT people with past flying experience. I started when I turned 15, and still am, and think that the Air Force would be more likely to accept me if I had a private pilots license. The worst that could happen is that he takes flying lessons and then you find out it might (even though I think it would be good) look bad on his application, you can just leave it out so they don’t know. Nothing wrong with that. As for being a combat fighter pilot of an F-22, it’s possible, but we all get dreams when we watch Top Gun (I love that movie). Keep in mind that the USAF has very hard standards that he must pass. Mostly academic, but also physical. Look it up on the web somewhere, you will find they have minimum amounts of athletic tests that must be passed, such as push ups (around 11) and sit-ups (something like 80-110 in two minutes). For academic, the more the populated your state, the higher the GPA needs to be. shoot for above 3.7 in an average state. Another note on why it would be better for your son to have piloting experience is because it takes the government around $1million (Or $10million, one of the two) of your tax dollars to train ONE pilot. So when the see on the appl. that he is a pilot, they will feel like they are not wasting their time and money with this new recrut. Just my two dollars. (Inflation) Hi. My young 14-year old son would love to learn how to fly, but currently he is hot over becoming a combat fighter pilot, and entering the Air Force Academy or the Naval Academy. He heard that kids who fly are sometimes not admitted because they may have learned "bad habits". Is there any truth to this? Do you recommend a 14 year old taking flying lessons, and would/could it hurt his chances to become a pilot in the Air Force Academy or Naval Flight School ? Thanks for any info…. — — Bill Peter http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/~peter/
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I don’t think so. My son was offered an air contract (guarenteed flight tng) by the Marines if he completed OCC. He has his private certificate. A friend of his went thru OCS in college and went to the Navy’s flight school. He said that the students with previous flight trainning had an early advantage due to the knowledge and experience they had, but that after a few weeks they were all on a level playing field. So, at this time it doesn’t appear that civilian flight experience would but him at a disadvantage.
Response:
Hi. My young 14-year old son would love to learn how to fly, but currently he is hot over becoming a combat fighter pilot, and entering the Air Force Academy or the Naval Academy. He heard that kids who fly are sometimes not admitted because they may have learned "bad habits". Is there any truth to this? Do you recommend a 14 year old taking flying lessons, and would/could it hurt his chances to become a pilot in the Air Force Academy or Naval Flight School ? Thanks for any info…. — — Bill Peter http://plasma-gate.weizmann.ac.il/~peter/
