Color blindness
Question:
I’m red/green color blind. The problem is that I can see aviation green/red very well. In real flight and on my simulators they look different to me. The problem I have is that I want to become a CP. I’ve heard of new color tests, involving light signals from the tower. Any experiences with this? Thanks, Martin
Response:
I’m red/green color blind. The problem is that I can see aviation green/red very well. In real flight and on my simulators they look different to me. The problem I have is that I want to become a CP. I’ve heard of new color tests, involving light signals from the tower. Any experiences with this?
If you can recognize the red/white VASI on final and the green/white flash of an airport beacon at night, the color test with a light gun is easy. The only hassle is getting the test arranged with FSDO. And remembering to take the SODA with you to your flight physicals. John J. Miller
Response:
Call up the FSDO and arrange for a light gun test. You’ll go out onto the tarmac with the examiner, the tower will flash lights and you call out the colors. You need to score 100% in order to get a Statement of Demonstrated Ability (SODA). I’m in the same situation you’re in. I flunked test with the color dots, but I passed the lightgun test and got a SODA which I bring with me to my flight physicals. Radu – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m red/green color blind. The problem is that I can see aviation green/red very well. In real flight and on my simulators they look different to me. The problem I have is that I want to become a CP. I’ve heard of new color tests, involving light signals from the tower. Any experiences with this? Thanks, Martin
Response:
I also have the red/green problem. Found out something interesting though. I can’t even read an aviation map in a classroom under floresent lights. But incandesant? OK. Try it yourself then see what kind of lighting your doctors office has. Jim
Response:
I also have the red/green problem. Found out something interesting though. I can’t even read an aviation map in a classroom under floresent lights. But incandesant? OK. Try it yourself then see what kind of lighting your doctors office has. Jim
Vision tests are supposed to be done under natural, indirect lighting. Fluorescent is deficient in the red end of the spectrum and will make red color deficiencies appear worse. Colin
Response:
Vision tests are supposed to be done under natural, indirect lighting.
Fluorescent is deficient in the red end of the spectrum and will make red color deficiencies appear worse. Colin< I’m sure you’re right. But when I realized this I thought back and every color blindness test I took was under floresent. Obviously not all doctors know this. Now when I go I stipulate the lighting. Jim
Response:
Hi, I was just stumbling over this thread and have an important question to ask: I wanted to get my private IFR in Switzerland but I only see part of the Ishihara tables. (like the first 6 plates and the last few). The doctors then diagnosed a medium green aberration, which basically means I can see green, but a very light green light might appear more dirty whitish to me. In switzerland that’s reason enough to disallow even private IFR ratings. Otherwise my vision acuity is way better than average. (1.3+ on both eyes) What are the requirements in the US? I was thinking of gettin my IFR there, especially as I mostly fly in the states anyway. thanks – Balthasar
Response:
I too had a similiar problem with the card test…my doctor then gave me the light test and I had no problems. This is just a flashlight looking thing shines through a red, green, and white light lens. We went through it with him covering different sections. I in turn did get my medical (3rd class) and am doing fine. He informed me that there are over 70 colorblindness tests that the FAA recognizes, and if I should ever go to another doctor (he is about to retire) let him know that he will need to do the flashlight test. He made it sound that not all doctors do this so call first. Happy Flying… Steve http://www.iwaynet.net/~shall/phoenix.html
Response:
Vision question: My vision in my right eye is 20/20 uncorrected and the left eye is 20/30 uncorrected, uncorrectable. Overall, my vision is 20/20 uncorrected. My question is, how far can I go with this? I know I can get a Third Class Medical (I need to get that soon for my instruction), but I would like to get a better certificate. I plan on getting many ratings including commercial in college, but I already know that an airline career is almost impossible at this point. What are my chances of a waiverless 1st or 2nd class Medical? Erik Monson
Response:
Well, it’s been couple of days since my original post and I really appreciate all the people who informed me. (Especially Mr. Freas) It turns out that even my CFII wasn’t quite that informed and he told me that the "only way" to get over this problem was to go to a major airport (in my case either Richmond,Va or Charleston, WV) and do the light gun test. However, I will follow the idea given by Mr. Freas and I’ll talk to the MD that checked me out for my Class III. Besides that I have contacted AOPA and they will send me some papers to go over. They also pointed out that putting me thrugh Ishahara tests was the mistake of the MD. So I’ll be in his office first thing in Monday morning. Thanks to all that help. Blacksburg, VA http://csugrad.cs.vt.edu/~acunerbb/ U.S.A
Response:
I too have had a similar experiance. There were circles filled with pastel colored dots, and I was supposed to see numbers in them. I could see all but one, and the nurse administering the test said if I couldn’t see it I couldn’t fly at night. I guessed, and I must have guessed right, cause I have an unrestricted medical. I can easily see the difference between red & green, but I have been dreading my next medical for fear that I will fail the color tests!! I’m glad I’m not alone. John http://www.preferred.com/~jhelt/jhelt.html
Response:
snip… By the time you need to upgrade it to 2nd class, the requirements for that and the 1st class will have been changed to essentially match those for the 3rd class medical wrt color vision. You should not have any problem with restrictions after the 16th of September.
I had to take the same test in all of my medicals. Luckily, I have no problem with color acuity – I have taken much harder tests just for fun and have scored well. Please elaborate on the changes to the FARs. My question is about visual acuity: I am working on my IFR, and would like to do the Commercial too, but my eyes do not meet the 20/100 uncorrected restriction for a second class medical (20/20 with correction, however). I basically shelved the idea of getting the commercial when I read the requirements for a second class medical, but then someone told me that the FARs had changed or were changing, but had no other information. I’d really like to know. Jon
Response:
Previously on Color blindness… If you can’t read the Ishihara (sp?) charts, there are alternative tests that may get you an unrestricted medical. But your best bet (especially if your AME isn’t an ophthalmologist) is to have him/her write the Airman Medical Branch requesting a waiver. Depending on the degree of impairment, you can demonstrate your vision once (once for each level of certificate
A waiver is a last-ditch, emergency measure that should only be resorted to if NOTHING else works. If you want to make a career as an airline pilot you do *NOT* want to list a waiver number on you application, and there is no guarantee that you will be able to have the waiver removed once received, even if the requirements for the medical change. In the case of the original poster, it sounds like he will have no problem passing the new medical standards in September. As a PPL applicant, he needs only a 3rd class medical for now, and despite his AME’s ignorance of the requirements thereof he qualifies for one without a waiver. Under none but the most extreme circumstances would I recommend anyone who wants to fly for a living get a waiver, and I certainly would wait until September 16 before I resorted to that. If you are a recreational PPL and don’t ever intend to apply to an airline, then a SODA (waiver) may be a convenient and low-effort way to remove the problem, but if you want that airline job, you are shooting yourself in the foot. Don’t let laziness, impatience or ignorance cause you to do something you will regret. — | #### #### John Freas, ATP/CFII-ME | Lear 23/24/25 | # # === === === === === === === === === === ===
Response:
Previously on Color blindness… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please elaborate on the changes to the FARs. My question is about visual acuity: I am working on my IFR, and would like to do the Commercial too, but my eyes do not meet the 20/100 uncorrected restriction for a second class medical (20/20 with correction, however). I basically shelved the idea of getting the commercial when I read the requirements for a second class medical, but then someone told me that the FARs had changed or were changing, but had no other information. I’d really like to know. See my response to the color vision query. You can get a waiver for this, too. In the case of visual acuity, it probably doesn’t even take a special test. If your AME doesn’t know how to do this, call the Civil Aeromedical Institute (Airman Certification) in OKC at (405) 954-4821.
See /my/ response to the color vision query response by Radagast. I really don’t want to copy my previous post, but the LAST thing you EVER want to do is get a SODA (waiver) for your medical if you intend to become an airline pilot. What’s more, it is, in your case, totally UNNECESSARY. Effective 16 September 1996 the medical requirements for visual acuity for Class 1 and 2 medical certificates will be "20/20 or better in each eye separately with or without corrective lenses" ^^^^^^^ As of September, you will NOT need a waiver for your vision. If you get one now, however, there is no guarantee that it can be removed. I’d hate to put a black mark on my resume just so I could hold a commercial ticket for an extra 2.5 months. Just wait! — | #### #### John Freas, ATP/CFII-ME | Lear 23/24/25 | # # === === === === === === === === === === ===
Response:
Yesterday I was at the doctor’s office to get my 3rd class medical. Everything was fine and dandy until I started to have hard time to see the numbers on the book that they show. It turns out that I am partially color blind. I mean I can distinguish green from red but with some colors it wasn’t easy to identify the numbers. I have passed the medical but they put "not valid for flight color signal control or night flight" on my medical. I am completely sad and confused now. I was planning to go all the way to ATP. Does this mean that I won’t be able to fly now? (I assume that noone will be willign to hire a pilot with night flight restrictions) Comments and suggestions by anybody with similar experience will be greatly appreciated. Blacksburg, VA http://csugrad.cs.vt.edu/~acunerbb/
Response:
Previously on Color blindness… Yesterday I was at the doctor’s office to get my 3rd class medical. Everything was fine and dandy until I started to have hard time to see the numbers on the book that they show. It turns out that I am partially color blind. I mean I can distinguish green from red but with some colors it wasn’t easy to identify the numbers.
This is complete and utter BULLSHIT. Why they had you looking at the ishihara book for a class 3 medical I cannot begin to guess, but they were holding you to standards for a 2nd or 1st class medical by doing so! Per FAR 67.17(3) you are only required to "distinguish aviation signal red, aviation signal green and white". Most eye charts have a red spot, a green spot and a white background. If you can tell these apart, you qualify for a Class 3 medical. I would get a copy of the FAR’s and take it to your medical examiner and start raising hell. There is no excuse for you to carry such a limitation on your medical if it is only a 3rd class. I have passed the medical but they put "not valid for flight color signal control or night flight" on my medical.
Do not accept this. If you do not get satisfaction from your doctor, take his name to AOPA (you should be a member anyway) and have them pursue the matter. You may have to go through the FAA at OKC to get it changed, but alternatively, you can just take the medical exam again, but with an AME who knows the regs! If your doctor is a fair man, he will put the correction through for you. I am completely sad and confused now. I was planning to go all the way to ATP. Does this mean that I won’t be able to fly now?
I understand your confusion. I’m confused too, but don’t be sad. While nobody would hire you with such a restriction on your ticket, you won’t have to have it. For now, get the unrestricted 3rd class medical. By the time you need to upgrade it to 2nd class, the requirements for that and the 1st class will have been changed to essentially match those for the 3rd class medical wrt color vision. You should not have any problem with restrictions after the 16th of September. Just make sure your doctor knows what they are doing. — | #### #### John Freas, ATP/CFII-ME | Lear 23/24/25 | # # === === === === === === === === === === ===
